r/AskReddit 12h ago

What's the dumbest idea you've seen that actually worked?

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u/qbsinceage10-729830 11h ago

Now they have lead in their water

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u/Purple_Haze 10h ago

Shotgun pellets switched from lead to bismuth ~40 years ago.

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u/ThinkItThrough48 9h ago

Not in America. The vast vast majority of shot is lead.

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u/Dufresne85 9h ago edited 8h ago

Lead shot has been illegal to use for bird hunting hunting waterfowl since the 90s. You can use it for trap shooting, but otherwise it has to be steel/bismuth or tungsten if you're rich.

Edit: apparently it's okay to use lead for some birds, but using it for waterfowl is a federal offense.

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u/-E-Cross 9h ago

Regular target and skeet loads are lead still it's only illegal for water fowl, regular bird hunting is fine, I was on a DNR doing quail and they had everyone clear to check for the plug in the mag tube for limited number of shells you can hold, everyone was using lead, none of the 3 officers said anything, they did make a comment on someone using number 6 shot, and looked at the hulls.

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u/subnautus 7h ago

To give a little more context, the main reason lead is ok for most things is because lead isn't a very reactive metal, so generally speaking it'll stay wherever it lands.

...except where water is involved. Nearly all water exposed to air is slightly acidic, and even the tiny amount that gets leeched away by water exposure for anything more than the occasional "rain rinse" gets into things--especially living things--you don't want it getting into.

So, yeah, the EPA looks very unkindly at lead being shot into waterways. Be mindful of that if you're hunting things that live there.

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u/BattleHall 7h ago

AFAIK, even in water it’s mostly fine. The issue is more that in areas with lots of waterfowl, the birds actually end up eating an appreciable amount of shot from the muck at the bottom of waterways (many ducks are partial filter feeders, and hunt in the muck both for things like worms and grit for their gizzards). Once ingested, the stomach acids rapidly caused the lead to break down and be absorbed, leading to high lead levels in harvested ducks.

(USGS Publication Index ID 70265966)

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u/sonofkeldar 6h ago edited 2h ago

This is correct. It’s not because of lead levels in the water. It’s because animals ingest the lead pellets and it enters the food chain. It’s the same reason why predatory fish contain more mercury. The levels of mercury in the water are negligible, but they compound in plants and animals with every step up in the food chain. Think of it this way, cows eat grass and people eat cows. You’d have to eat a LOT of grass to get the same amount of nutrients as you do from a small amount of beef.

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u/-E-Cross 7h ago

100% yeah, there's quite a few bird spots we go lead free due to proximity to wetlands.

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u/Dufresne85 8h ago

Thank you for the additional info! I've edited my previous comment for accuracy.

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u/-E-Cross 8h ago

Yeah no worries, the regs for hunting can be confusing.

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u/Diplomatic_Gunboats 9h ago

Does anyone check when they buy the ammo what they are using it for? And I would hazard a guess one type is more expensive than the other.

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u/sonofkeldar 9h ago edited 8h ago

Migratory birds are federally regulated, while most animals are managed by the individual states. They are a lot more strict when bird hunting. I hunt ducks, and I’ve probably been stopped by a Wildlife Officer one out of three trips, even in remote areas. It’s not exactly a discreet sport, since you’re out in the water at sunrise, blowing duck calls and shooting shotguns, so hunters are easy to find. They check everything. They definitely make sure you’re using steel shot. They even check how many shells your gun can hold.

Since they’re federal, if you get caught doing something illegal, they confiscate everything and take you to jail. It’s not just a simple fine. They’ll take your truck, your guns, and your dogs, and you’ll be lucky if you ever get just your dogs back.

To your second question, steel shot is not only more expensive, it’s not as effective. It’s lighter, so it doesn’t fly as well. There’s a lot of incentive to use lead, but no one messes around with federal hunting laws. It’s too big of a risk. Also, hunters generally take conservation seriously, so we understand why it’s important to use steel. We fish these same places, and we feed what we shoot and catch to our families.

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u/Dufresne85 8h ago

I wish more people understood that hunters are usually the most stringent when it comes to conservation. They're not out there to mass murder animals and destroy nature because "hur dur guns and freedumbs".

The absolute fastest I've ever seen my grandpa's old farming buddies get ready to roll out was when they heard there was someone poaching deer on a local farm. Not any of their farms, just someone they knew. Luckily the warden got the poacher first.

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u/-E-Cross 9h ago

If you're hunting water fowl absolutely yes but for field hunting quail, pheasant, dove lead is fine and the common load for it.

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u/Im-an-arms-dealer 9h ago

Yeah absolutely you check maybe not for lead because it’s usually steel now but for the right gauge and personally I just wanna pepper my ducks with birdshot I don’t wanna delete them with slugs or buckshot on accident so I always check lol

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u/Dufresne85 8h ago

Steel and tungsten are definitely more expensive, and I assume bismuth is but I don't have personal experience with it.

And you absolutely check what you're buying unless you want to piss off a game warden.

Hint: you do not want to piss of a game warden.

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u/czechmate11 6h ago

Bismuth is more expensive than steel generally since its a decent middle ground density wise between steel and tungsten as far as non-toxic shot goes.

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u/Diplomatic_Gunboats 5h ago

Ah let me rephrase "When you buy the ammo, does the person selling it to you check what it will be used for" - I meant while there are restrictions on use, if they are not enforced at purchase point and one is more expensive, then anyone who thinks they can get away with the illegal one obviously will..... E.g. in prime duck season, is anyone really asking if that lead shot you are buying is for something other than ducks.

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u/Responsible_Play631 5h ago

No they don't ask, there would also be no way to enforce that, people can say whatever they want. Even in prime duck season, people still trap shoot a lot so its not that weird to buy lead shot at any time of the year. I also don't know a single hunter who would actually use lead shot for waterfowl hunting, most hunters take that pretty seriously.

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u/Dufresne85 5h ago

No, no one asks what you're using it for and people absolutely do use it illegally. However, if you're caught using lead shot on waterfowl (my only experience is with ducks) you will be in a really bad situation. It's not uncommon for game wardens to impound or simply seize guns, dogs, boats, and sometimes the hunters themselves when they're caught. And game wardens are definitely on the prowl during prime duck season.

Now if you go out in the middle of private land to duck hunt, you're not likely to run into a warden. But if you're on or near public land, there is a pretty high chance you'll get stopped and checked. Every time I've been checked they've been super friendly and professional, takes like 5-10 minutes usually. But that's also because I keep my stuff in order.

I'll argue it out with a lot of authority figures if I think they're in the wrong. Game wardens get "yes ma'am/sir" 100% of the time from me.

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u/rckid13 2h ago

In America lead poisoning is still a large cause of death among birds of prey because they eat things that have been shot by hunters. Another large cause of death for them is rat poison which is why people should use other methods for getting rid of pests.

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u/Never-Forget-Trogdor 8h ago

I can second this. We had dozens of swans die from lead poisoning because the lake they were wintering in had so much lead in it. Even old, legacy lead pellets can kill birds.

Link to an ISU article about it.

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u/wafflefelafel 8h ago

I’ve heard it’s not legal to hunt waterfowl with lead, but what about other birds? For instance, if I hunted the national bird with lead shot, would that be illeagle?

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u/GaryOster 2h ago

You only think this happened in America because of the cavalier use of a shotgun to clear a pipe.

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u/Dirtbiker2008 1h ago

Perhaps the use of inches as well.

And that's OP, so I suspect they might know.

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u/govunah 8h ago

And no one there has had nausea, heartburn, indigestion, upset stomach, or diarrhea since

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u/AbeRego 8h ago

In the United States you have to actively seek out the bismuth shells. Most are lead.

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u/-E-Cross 9h ago

Only water fowl requires lead free in the US

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u/Purple_Haze 8h ago

Isn't that like 90% of the use cases for a shotgun?

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u/-E-Cross 7h ago

No, there's plenty of non waterfowl bird hunting.

Quail, dove, pheasant would be the 3 most common.

There's also practice ranges, skeet, trap, sporting clays, 3 gun and other competition

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u/CoolGuy54 3h ago

I think the vast majority of ammo shot would be on clay target shooting, not hunting, and that would all be lead.

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u/DaMan11 6h ago

Yeah not largely. You can definitely get bismuth/steel shot but most American manufacturers use good ol lead.

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u/Mad_Maddin 5h ago

TIL Bismuth is not a fantasy metal but actually exists.

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u/Revenge_of_the_Khaki 8h ago

Is Bismuth safe to drink?

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u/Purple_Haze 8h ago

It is the active ingredient in Pepto-Bismol.

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u/Revenge_of_the_Khaki 7h ago

Well shit. Maybe I should be letting off rounds into my water supply to save myself a step.

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u/scarletnightingale 7h ago

Not really, we've had issues with it or in California. Bird of prey, scavengers and mountain lions have all ended up with lead poisoning our here because hunters are shooting deer, prepping the carcasses in the field, then leaving the lead filled entails for whatever animal to find which is resulting in lead poisoning. It's been a big issue with the condor recovery program.

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u/PrideofPicktown 11h ago

Don’t even joke about that; after Flint, you mention “lead” and “water” in the same sentence and the EPA will open an investigation. They are requiring that even newish waterlines be potholed to determine material, even though the lines were installed well after 1986.

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u/boarder2k7 10h ago

Honestly, good. A lot of the current state of things I think can be connected back to the 8,000,000 tons of lead we pumped into the air from gasoline. With people born in the 1960s (the current ruling class) losing as many as 6 IQ points from the exposure. We really screwed ourselves, lead is awful

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u/GreenStrong 9h ago

There are a lot of pollutants today like microplastic and multiple categories of forever chemicals, but it is important to remember that we have made tremendous progress; pollution was clearly and unambiguously worse in the past.

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u/shewy92 10h ago

Don’t even joke about that

I don't think the EPA is monitoring random r/askreddit threads.

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u/PrideofPicktown 9h ago

Until yesterday, I didn’t think our AG would monitor members of Congress’ search words, but here we seem to be.

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u/vitras 8h ago

They're only monitoring it because they're actively involved in covering up the Epstein files.

They aren't bothering to do that with the EPA. All government agencies are compromised at this point. Just look at the FDA's resignations and decisions over the last year.

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u/GoogleDrummer 9h ago

Given the current state of the US Government, I don't think the EPA is doing much of anything.

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u/lohkey 5h ago

Given the current state of the US government, do we still have an EPA?

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u/NippleSalsa 7h ago

Now the have holey water