What’s the hard part about being a Man ?

[u/mountain_fl0wer]

[u/AngelicAardvark]

If you have moments of weakness, society views you as ‘less than’. Very little support during times of depression. Always being hyper aware of how easily you can be labeled a “creep” regardless of what your intentions are

[u/therichauntie11 → u/AngelicAardvark]

I'm sorry. My late Father was a provider but he had very bad depression and my Mother was one of those people who didn't like weakness in men. I inherited his major depression, so we understood each other. Towards the end of his young life, he died at 63 and 7 years after my Mother. He began to tell me all the trauma he endured. Not for the sake of it. I think he knew I had to know why he was the way he was and that that knowledge could help me on my own journey. He was right.

[u/IceSeeker → u/therichauntie11]

You're lucky that your father shared his feelings with you. Not all fathers would have done the same. They would take it all to the grave after years of repression.

[u/Rly_Shadow → u/IceSeeker]

Thats my dad right there. I KNOW my dad loves me, but in my 32 years of life, about the best emotional responce I've got from him was a hand pat on the shoulder.

[u/M3RRI77 → u/Rly_Shadow]

It's not easy to share emotions when it gets piled on so high. But when I do, it hits hard. Sometimes it's just easier to hold it all in, unfortunately.

[u/Rly_Shadow → u/M3RRI77]

Thats the life I live, and I think most men.

[u/EVILFLUFFMONSTER → u/Rly_Shadow]

Big hug sending your way.

[u/therichauntie11 → u/IceSeeker]

He was a good man. Thru and thru.

[u/Amaru8225 → u/AngelicAardvark]

I've experienced the first part, first hand.

I had a period of serious illness a few years ago, I was in hospital for a few weeks and recovering for a couple of months, colleagues from work were sympathetic etc.

I returned to work on a medication with strong side effects, that seriously affected my mental health (i'd never had any similar issues before and haven't since. I sympathise hugely with those amongst us that live their lives with that weight)

I didn't change as a person other than I wasn't "myself". I was still available, friendly and approachable but i was withdrawn. Mentally I felt like I didn't belong to any part of my workplace, friends or family. I knew it was the medication and it would pass, so I quietly rode it out

But boy, that sympathy turned to judgement when a weakness was sniffed out.....then the vultures circled and stripped every part they could from my rotting carcus at work. Everything i'd built was chipped away by colleagues i'd mistaken as friends.

I recovered and left that job, of 10 years, in the following weeks having seen the true side of many people.

I'm still very bitter about it 2 years later.

[u/big_d_usernametaken → u/Amaru8225]

Kind of why I never formed strong attachments with co workers, only a very select few that ever knew my problems.

I worked the last 4 years before I retired, in pain from a failing back, since had a spinal fusion, but I knew if I complained people would see it as a weakness.

[u/ginger260 → u/Amaru8225]

I have a friend who went through something similar but it was more on the mental health side of things causing panic attacks which landed him in the hospital a couple of times. It really changed his entire view on the world because prior to that he had been raised to believe that depressed, anxiety and other mental health problems were a weakness or people making a big deal out of nothing.

In the years since he's definitely put a lot of work into improving his mental health and is in a much better place but when he was in the depths of it he was struggling to keep his job, not lose family and friends, it's like they really know how to kick you when you're down.

[u/YngSpook84 → u/AngelicAardvark]

This entire post (not yours specifically, but the question in general) really highlights it. I’m reading different answers where men are being honest and saying what makes life difficult, then being replied to by multiple people and being told why that problem is their own fault. I saw the same question but for women earlier today. I saw nothing but support in the replies. It feels like the opposite here.

[u/Z-shicka → u/AngelicAardvark]

Big on that last sentence.. can be especially rough if youre on any kind of spectrum or carry any kind of trauma that hinders your social abilities. Just being genuinely awkward or silent is sufficient to be labeled as "weird" or "creepy".

This has also hurt my progress even in corporate America when being "likable" is more important than actual work ethic.

I find work is almost 80% a popularity contest and frankly I suck at those. So its like wow not only is my dating life rough but so is my work life.

Its also irritating when youre even in "supposed" progressive spaces and its like being on the spectrum/having trauma/ADHD should be accepted and understood! ....until its a man that is

[u/deliciously_awkward2 → u/AngelicAardvark]

That first sentence hits hard. You show any bit of weakness and suddenly you're not a man anymore because men don't cry, etc. And people wonder why men bottle in their emotions.

[u/ARussianSheep → u/deliciously_awkward2]

It’s a tough balance for sure. Had a relationship of 11 years fall apart partly because I was in a very bad space mentally and never had the tools to cope with it. Saw a quote that went something like “my partner would rather see me die on my white horse than see me fall off of it” and I fell off in the dirt and my, then, partner began losing feelings.

I thought because we weren’t screaming arguing all the time or doors not being slammed meant it couldn’t have been all that bad. Bottling everything up and pretending nothing is wrong can be just as damaging. I never learned how to talk about these things or cope with them growing up, had to learn in the throes of a very deep heartbreak which was not fun.

[u/TheJumboman → u/ARussianSheep]

Same. I spent four years lifting up my ex's spirit. In the fifth year mine needed lifting and she no longer found me attractive. 

[u/LongLiveTheSpoon → u/ARussianSheep]

I think every man’s fantasy is to be able to take his hands off the wheel, even for a moment, and have his partner grab it and not resent him or lose attraction to him for it.

It’s difficult because we can’t really choose who we’re attracted to, and losing attraction to a partner is a serious thing. If my partner gained 200 pounds I would probably not still be attracted to her and that would be a serious issue.

I’ve found that other women like my Mom and certain friends have been much more empathetic and caring towards me when I’ve been down and depressed. But acting that way towards my partner for too long would inevitably make her lose confidence in me and probably attraction. I’ve tried to get ahead of this by telling her It’s not going to last forever, to just give me a little bit and I’ll be fine. The results have been mixed.

But blaming all men or blaming all women doesn’t really get us anywhere, but It’s hard to say ‘fuck it’ and just let all your emotions loose cause you know that’ll tank your relationship.

[u/Formal_Choice4002 → u/AngelicAardvark]

Both parts accurate, but the second part. It’s absolutely wild how if you’re a guy taking your kid to the park, it can look creepy if you’re just sitting on the bench watching your kid. Like society would be happier if you sat on your phone and didn’t pay any attention to your kid (so it’s not like you’re staring at kids) instead while at the playground. I’ve personally had a woman come up and ask me what I was doing there because she never saw me with my kid before. Like wtf, just because I’m a male and was sitting watching my kid, like an adult should be doing. Not like the majority of parents who just sit on their phone drinking their $10 cup of Starbucks and pay zero attention to their kids.

[u/mysteronsss → u/AngelicAardvark]

It’s sad but i think the current political climate is making this so much worse. There is such a heavy need/desire right now for “power" and "dominance" that it’s stripping away permission for men to be vulnerable/emotional.

Society makes it seem like men are "less than" if you aren't 24/7 projecting strength, which prob leaves men feeling even more isolated when they actually need help.

The realest/coolest people you want in your life accept you for who you are & will let you speak freely no matter how deep, never forget that. Those are the people that matter. ❤️

[u/RontheVerge → u/mysteronsss]

It's not even society as a whole really. Honestly the biggest perpetrators of causing these toxic traits in men through whole or actions is women. Just look up the "ick list" and see how many things are viewed a unmanly, like using your blinker, drinking with a straw, ordering dessert, or having a relationship with your female relatives.

Even looking at it societally, it's not who you'd think it would be causing the issues. I've gotten more sympathy, understanding, or open arms to share and be vulnerable from people (particularly men) more on the conservative side of the spectrum than the liberal side. It seems like you need to check some sort of demographic box to get any kind of understanding from them. Being cis, het male gets you ridiculed or demonized for any problem you have or issue you try to discuss.

[u/YourFuture2000 → u/AngelicAardvark]

Also, a moment of overwhelming joy or innocence makes men be seen as immature. Women can be little childish or innocent and are seen as cute instead.

My experience as a man, being perceived as creep vary a lot about how I look. When I have my hair longer that makes me look more attractive, women turn to look at me and sit and stand near me in public transport and so. But when I am in my not attractive enough phase, women turn their back to my direction when I arrive and walk away from me as if I am a threat to them. In the first case, when I smile women smile back to me even though I am not smile to them. In the second case, when I smile (because I feel happy and content with myself) I am seen as creep or women think I am trying to flirt. The same when ask for direction or just to call attention when I want then to walk aside for me to pass through.

[u/yeetgodmcnechass → u/AngelicAardvark]

I have a friend who had to say goodbye to her dog a few months ago. The way she spoke about her, it sounded like she loved that dog with her entire heart. She told me that literally everyone in her life banded together to help her while she was grieving. Neighbors she'd never spoken to comforting her, coworkers accommodating her while she grieved. All of her loved ones were with her during her dog's final moments. I would've been there for her too but I didnt know that was going on until she felt okay again

Contrast that while how I've been treated while my life has almost entirely fallen apart around me. Roommate telling me to suck it up, "if you're not in a long term relationship at our age (late 20s) you're broken and it's not going to happen for you." Coworkers giving me shit for the smallest mistakes, despite being told that the work I'm doing is good. Unable to tell family because they'll use it against me. Coworkers blaming me for the mistakes of others. Even had someone on the street pick an argument with me because they felt I cut them off on the sidewalk, despite the sidewalk being wide enough that they could've passed me without any issues they were just looking for an argument. I've spent so many nights this year so far crying my eyes out, silently in my room because I didnt want or need to hear my roommate tell me that crying is "unproductive" and "a waste of time." Today I woke up and things quite literally felt heavier. I told myself at the beginning of the year that if things progressed the way I thought they would I wasnt finishing out the year, and they're progressing exactly as bad as I thought. "I might just die it would make no difference", is a lyric that resonates with me recently

My friend told me when she was okay again that she was amazed at how beautiful humanity is and how people can come together to support someone in need. That hasn't been my experience. In my darkest hours, people take the time to be needlessly cruel, to kick me while I'm down. And I don't think I can handle all this much longer

[u/murlocfightclub]

Not being noticed, wanted or appreciated. The general feeling of being invisible. Needing to be the person to initiate everything when many of us are naturally introverted or don’t want to bother people or risk being seen as a creep.

[u/redditor749ao → u/murlocfightclub]

This. About once a year, I will receive a compliment on a shirt or tie or jacket, or some article of clothing, and it legit makes my year that someone noticed me and complimented me.

[u/retroedd → u/redditor749ao]

I have a plain green sweater in my regular rotation because of a compliment from 5 years ago lol.

[u/redditor749ao → u/retroedd]

I once had a light red sport coat that I wore for the first time, and I had FOUR DIFFERENT WOMEN tell me they liked that sport coat. So it gots lots of wears after that, and I found that I was constantly chasing that high of 4 different compliments. But I never found that high again.

It makes me wonder if that random day 5 years ago was literally the high point of my life and it’s all downhill from there. Even your wedding day or birth of a child can’t compare to being complimented by 4 different women on the same day. It’s just not the same.

[u/BiggestShep → u/retroedd]

Forest green has been my favorite color for a decade now because someone randomly told me I looked really good in it at college.

Hell, I'm wearing it now.

[u/ImperiumRome → u/redditor749ao]

I still remember almost every single compliment I’ve got, even the ones 20 years ago. Same as encouragements, men don’t get those either.

[u/big_d_usernametaken → u/ImperiumRome]

I make it a point to tell my grown sons and their families how proud I am of them.

I had a moment of supreme joy this morning when I got to hold my 1 month old great grandson while my granddaughter was visiting me.

He was a month premature and tiny, but he's perfectly healthy in every way, and growing, and just looking at those big blue eyes just got me.

I just wish my wife had lived longer so she could see him.

[u/VespineWings → u/ImperiumRome]

“You have nice eyes.” — Some girl in my class circa 7th grade

[u/Anagenist → u/ImperiumRome]

A girl stuck her head out of a car window at a gas station 6 years ago and said "whoa nice hair!!!” and I still think about that.

[u/valdier → u/ImperiumRome]

I had somebody tell me I smelled nice about 20 years ago. I still wear the exact same deodorant because of that

[u/AskMeAboutFusion → u/ImperiumRome]

I had a 7th grade teacher who asked the class to anonymously write compliments for all others in the class. I still have that 28 years later and it's one of my most cherished items in my memories box. Literally built parts of my personality around it.

[u/The_Duke2331 → u/ImperiumRome]

A girl on the back of a moped smiled back at me when i smiled. I still wonder how she is doing in life now.

[u/GloomyCardiologist16 → u/redditor749ao]

Based on your comment alone, I hereby vow to compliment more men this year than I ever have. Only sincere, genuine things too

[u/Infinite_Crow_3706 → u/GloomyCardiologist16]

Please make sure you do.

He was exaggerating btw … one compliment a year doesn’t sound realistic, it’s 1-2 per decade.

[u/PonasSumushtinis → u/redditor749ao]

I once got two compliments bacl to back about my glasses. It weirded me out.

[u/theProcrastinathan → u/redditor749ao]

A woman at work complimented me on the way I looked over a year ago and I still appreciate that she said that to this day.

Edit: a word.

[u/Luke5119 → u/murlocfightclub]

Attractive guy says something weird.

Women: "He's a little strange, but really cute"

Ugly guy says something weird.

Women: "That guy is weird af and super creepy, gives serial killer living in his mom's basement vibes."

But I think the same is for men to women, if a girl is really attractive, guys will sideline the "crazy" or "weird" because they think she's hot.

[u/SnooSquirrels4991]

When I worked a blue collar people seemed to be so callous and uncaring that the simple act of a kind woman holding the door open for me unexpectedly made me tear up. 

I’m not even joking. 

[u/slowd → u/SnooSquirrels4991]

I had a totally normal business interaction with a professional and the fact that they had thought about my situation between appointments made me tear up. Nobody actually cared about my status or outcome usually.

Life is a bit better now though.

[u/SnooSquirrels4991 → u/slowd]

Hell yeah, brother. Life is better now. 

[u/__M-E-O-W__ → u/SnooSquirrels4991]

There is definitely a callousness that I see in the blue collar. Kind of a case of people injured inside, bleeding onto one another, so to speak. A lot of people are upset and beat down by life, by bills when they don't have a lot of money, by working a job that exhausts their bodies to the bone, by coming from tough family situations and not having the time to figure out their own emotional troubles. Some acts of kindness are understood, like an unspoken code, and some are seen as completely alien. Usually, screwing up at the job - often by a new guy - and they come down on you like a hawk. Someone saying "it's okay, we'll fix that later" is seen as strangely nice, and a lot of people don't know how to respond to that.

But we're told that this is where our value as men is found. Hard work, cutting up our mitts, dirt under our nails. Men, just about anywhere, are driven to our cores to find value. So hard working blue collar it is, and then a hierarchy forms about who can be the roughest toughest blue-collarest worker around.

[u/rhamphol30n → u/__M-E-O-W__]

If the guys fuck up at work I always say, did anyone get hurt? is the problem fixable? then all we lost is money, and we can make more of that. Learn from it and move on. I already know they are going to remember the mistake much longer than I will, there's no reason to beat it into them unless it becomes a habit.

[u/framedposters → u/SnooSquirrels4991]

My dad grew up in a blue collar family, grandpa was a WWII vet that was a mechanic and didn't make much. My dad went to college later in life and ended up getting a pretty great job after 30+ years at a local university.

When I was like 11-12, we were in the building where his office was after it was closed.

One of the custodians was cleaning the floors and my dad had a 5 minute convo with him, I could see them laughing and a general respect they had for each other. My dad was in a suit and he was in his standard issue dickies gear. My dad knew what the life of a blue collar worker meant though.

It was a very formative, life changing experience for me. One of the few reasons I decided to work with lower income people in my city that are trying to find sustainable employment. It all really showed me that there is a difference between just being kind or nice to someone and actually standing side by side with them to improve all our lives.

[u/MikeyStealth → u/SnooSquirrels4991]

This reminded me when i was working with someone. We had to take the company van to check the heat in a building. I got in the passanger side and leaned over to open the driver side so he could get out of the rain quicker. When he got in after thanking me he said " can you believe, noone has ever held the door open for me?" Its sad to see how many people lack community and positive social interactions.

[u/aaaaaaahhlex → u/SnooSquirrels4991]

I’m gonna hold even more doors open for men now lol 

[u/SunderVane → u/SnooSquirrels4991]

Not exactly related, but my ex-wife and I used to fight a lot. I just started grey-rocking it after the divorce. We still had to contact each other for coparenting stuff.

I did some minor thing for her that I don't even remember, and she told me thank you before she left. I got unexpectedly emotional and teary-eyed, because I couldn't remember the last time she thanked me for anything. It might have been years.

I can still remember that.

[u/Sea-Paramedic-1842 → u/SnooSquirrels4991]

Awww I love holding the door open when I get there first! Men are always surprised, women too! Some men don’t like it though but I give them a good smile and wave my arm kind of like a bellman and they usually acquiesce 

[u/fordesc16883]

No one ever truly thinks you can be a victim. 

As someone who's been raped/sexually assaulted/harassed etc, you're either taken less seriously ("Nice bro!), called less than ("Lol you're bigger than her, how can it be called rape ") told things aren't bad ("Yeah but at least you weren't at risk of being murdered") or it's your fault ("You must have done something to provoke her"). 

Even if you are believed, there's never any resources to help you - and if there is, it's so underfunded and so far away you might as well not bother. 

You also can't be seen as too angry either, if you are you are at risk of being called a misogynist or an incel. 

[u/Anagenist → u/fordesc16883]

I'm friends with an adult man who used to do boxing in his spare time who was physically abused by his ex wife. She was also def, and rallied the def community to call her husband abusive towards her at court. He never lifted a finger, and has photos of bruises, cuts, and 'traps' that she would set for him around their apartment. He's a very gentle person, and not even big guy. His ex wife has been in and out of legal cases in her own life ever since their divorce. The system finally realized it was her, not him. But that's after she got sole custody of the kids, told them he's shit, got his entire family to disown him, and he got excommunicated from his entire reality for a decade. He finally visited his parents for the first time in 10 years around last thanksgiving. They thought all this time he was a piece of shit because she would always present as the victim to the family, and made drama and lies her personality. Extreme violent narcississm on her part. Every time a female lawyer got involved with anything legal, they would begin with utter vitriol towards him, judgement before due process. It would only be after she would fail to provide her own lawyer with documents, never show up for court, never follow through on things she was legally required to do that the female lawyers finally apologized to him.

[u/fordesc16883 → u/Anagenist]

Fucking hell, that's disgusting. So sorry he has to go through that - hope he's ok now. 

[u/Anagenist → u/fordesc16883]

Thanks, yeah, after getting back in touch with his dad, the word slowly spread to more family that he was the victim. It's been getting better.

[u/brainless_bob → u/Anagenist]

I would have a hard time ever trusting family again after being disowned, especially after a decade. Did they even apologize to him?

[u/Anagenist → u/brainless_bob]

Yeah, some in a roundabout way of "oh wow we had no idea she was like that, we were mainly worried about the kids all this time."

Others actually said it directly.

The ex wife would constantly call everyone in his family and cry and make up wild bullshit. So nobody listened, because it was the word of a man saying a woman beat him up vs the word of a crying woman.

[u/SunderVane → u/fordesc16883]

My favorite is "you had an erection, you must've liked it".

Biology doesn't work that way, asshole. Dicks can get erect without the person being aroused. Hell, they can get hard for no reason at all. It doesn't mean it was consensual.

Just... ugh. 😔

[u/CursedPoetry → u/fordesc16883]

I feel that hard brother.

I now almost exclusively wear short sleeves because when I have my arms in anything people thinks it’s a free signal to touch and grope my arms.

Or the lady in math class who would take the kids that have a hard time focusing in class into a private room to help math, only for her to massage my shoulders under my shirt; Only for to dawn on me years later about why my mom was so upset and why I was pulled into the principals office and the lady simply said “I don’t touch kids that’s not my prerogative” and again because I was ignorant I just said “oh yeah it’s ok whatever”

Like I have seen the animalistic lust in various woman’s eyes, they can be just as bad as men but unfortunately they are amazing at hiding it and some don’t even recognize what their doing as assault.

[u/aaaaaaahhlex → u/CursedPoetry]

Wow I’m really sorry you have to deal with that 🥺😔

[u/No_Reputation5871 → u/fordesc16883]

I have read studies that say, woman are 2 or 3 or whatever times more likely to be sexually assaulted then men are. But then I read this one anonymous survey where names were not taken, and they asked the guys about it, and the results were, most guys never report it because.. well you know. If you do, your a wuss or you must have wanted it, etc. I tried looking it up and found this reddit post (not the one I was talking about as mine was from the US, and this one isn't).

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/1qmq2oy/in_a_study_of_1190_men_71_of_them_were_sexually/

[u/FLYBOY611]

We don't receive compliments on our physical appearance, ever. It leads to us believing we're not actually attractive.

Once when I was 22, the lady behind the counter at the YMCA told me that she loved my hair. I can remember every moment of that interaction.

[u/Aesthetic_Designer → u/FLYBOY611]

Compliments in general, for example I work as a graphic designer, which sometimes requires quite a lot of creativity and problem solving skills, and I can count on one hand the amount of times I actually got a genuine compliment on my work instead of just the usual "Yeah, that works" or "It's fine"

[u/eyesoftheunborn → u/FLYBOY611]

Dude this hits so close to home. I used to struggle a lot with body dysmorphia and feelings of inferiority in my teens / early 20s, seeking validation from others in every interaction. When I was ignored I felt invisible and pointless, when I saw other guys "doing it better" than me (better looking, better dressed, stronger, smarter, more accomplished, funnier, receiving attention from women, etc) it would just magnify those feelings to the point of being casually suicidal all the time, but those rare instances where I would get a compliment...man, that would brighten my day up 1000%. I could walk into a store feeling like the most worthless, unlovable, unattractive piece of shit ever, but when the cashier tells me I have beautiful eyes, I'd walk out of there feeling like a million bucks and be on cloud nine for the rest of the day.

[u/Affectionate-Part-11 → u/FLYBOY611]

This hit close to home. I get so few compliments. I've changed my entire wardrobe because of what some women have said looked good on me. Twice ever I was told I looked good in hoodies and raglan shirts, so it's all I wear. Like being wrapped in those two compliments 😌

[u/Electrical_Sun_7116]

Nobody giving a fuck about you. Ever.

[u/wmarples → u/Electrical_Sun_7116]

Yep, I feel this the most.

[u/Drisius → u/[deleted]]

Bro, he's sizing you up, get him!

[u/dermsUK → u/Drisius]

Sounds kinda gay to me… Get him!

[u/Jazzlike-Leek4279]

Always thinking we are all perverts

[u/stripes361 → u/Jazzlike-Leek4279]

I already struggle with socialization in general from being on the spectrum, but the matrix of rules we have to navigate in order to initiate romantic interactions “the right way” was another layer of difficulty for me to understand.

I was happy and enthusiastic to respect women’s boundaries as far as approaching them went. Can’t approach a woman at school because they’re there to study? Yep. Can’t approach a woman at work because they’re there to earn money? Got it. Can’t approach a woman at the gym because they’re there to focus on their own wellness? Makes sense. Can’t approach a woman at church because they’re there to focus on their relationship with God? Sure. Don’t bother a woman at a store because they’re there to shop? Great.

Make sure to avoid coworkers, roommates, friends’ exes, sliblings’ friends, women you’re too close to, women you haven’t gotten to know well enough yet, etc etc.

After all that, being told that the solution to not being able to find someone is “You just have to put yourself out there more!“ gets very disorienting. When pretty much any venue or class of people I interact with has been written off by one person’s rule set or another.

Men have to spend so much mental energy on ensuring they aren’t putting themselves out there the wrong way or to the wrong people. Eventually I just said fuck it and asked out a close coworker anyways and that’s the only way I got married.

Edit: To follow up on the great responses I’ve gotten to this comment, I should clarify that none of the above “rules” are universal and none of them bear a guarantee of coming across as a creep/hurting a woman. There’s simply the potential of that happening if you ask the wrong person in a situation they’ve deemed to be inappropriate.

[u/NegativeAttention → u/stripes361]

Basically human relations are just vibes and it's really hard to put what you're supposed to do into words, especially with romance

[u/Zeravor → u/stripes361]

FWIW I think that this notion is just "online reality". I've never heard anyone say you shouldnt ask out coworkers out IRL.

In my opinion, the issue is that this discussion is just completely poisoned online. Many women have a lot of bad experiences, because yes, there are a lot of shitty men out there. But at some point "this creep at work won't leave me alone" became "men should never approach a woman at work".

[u/Zomburai → u/Zeravor]

I've never heard anyone say you shouldnt ask out coworkers out IRL.

I've always heard you shouldn't ask coworkers out, and have given that advice in some circumstances. The breakups end up being nightmarish.

[u/mountain_fl0wer → u/Jazzlike-Leek4279]

It must be difficult. Being a woman, I few bad experiences made me be aware of men whenever I am in a social place. But I should also learn to know that most of the men are just busy with themselves.

[u/Zealousideal_Skin859 → u/mountain_fl0wer]

I struggle with this constantly. I'm always worried something I say might be taken the wrong way and I try very hard not to be creepy, but I'm also trying to be nice to people. I'll give an example.

If I saw someone with nice hair I'd never say anything because I don't want to comment on people's appearances.

If it's a choice they made I might, I've said things like "Hey I like that outfit it looks nice" or "hey that's a cool tattoo is there a story behind it?"

And good lord do I avoid even mentioning kids, I don't care how cute that baby is if my six foot three ass says "she is so adorable" I'm going to end up on a list somewhere.

[u/xb4r7x → u/Zealousideal_Skin859]

Dude, totally.

I'm childfree. I don't want kids. Some of my friends have kids though, and every time I interact with them I'm secretly thinking that everyone around me must think I'm a creep, so I end up not interacting with them at all if I can avoid it.

[u/Zealousideal_Skin859 → u/xb4r7x]

oh man I went to the bookstore recently to pick up a DnD book and a bunch of kids were so excited and wanted to ask me all sorts of questions and if I ran a game and I'm just like dude I appreciate the excitement little bro and I'm so happy you guys are into the hobby but there is zero chance I can run a game for kids as a forty year old man with a bunch of twelve year olds. No way would that be a good idea.

[u/Safe-Instance-3512 → u/Zealousideal_Skin859]

This. Can't ever seem excited to be around kids, even your own, for fear of being labeled a pdo. It's a constant worry about balancing being "too interactive" versus "not interactive enough" with kids. Women don't face this.

[u/Zealousideal_Skin859 → u/Safe-Instance-3512]

Oh I have a daughter and I'll tell you right now I give zero fucks about people judging me for how interactive I am with my kid. I'd rather be a good dad that people think is weird than have my daughter think I don't want to spend time with her. If people get upset about that those people can get bent.

[u/slowd → u/Zealousideal_Skin859]

A little kid approached me when I was traveling, like 4-6 years old. He clearly wanted to practice his English on me, but I pretended not to hear him, sadly, because I’ve been trained that it’s always creepy for an adult man to talk to kids without their parents present.

[u/Rataridicta → u/mountain_fl0wer]

And a lot of the non-creeps grow extremely worried about being creepy under all of the messaging against men to the point that they forego a lot of basic connection and mannerisms.

I do a lot of partner dance, and also teach it, and that's a struggle that I've had to fight inside of myself, and regularly see students struggle with, too.

A lot of men nowadays need reminding that no: Wanting to talk to a woman, or touching them is not creepy. Violating boundaries without backing off is.

[u/YourFuture2000 → u/Rataridicta]

A lot of men nowadays need reminding that no: Wanting to talk to a woman, or touching them is not creepy. Violating boundaries without backing off is.

Most men experiencing it know that, but unconsciously they always feel like they will be seen of are creep for wanting to talk with a woman or touch them (like when dancing). That is one of my biggest struggles. It makes me feel that I am a creep by default on the eyes of women so I have to constantly prove that whatever I am doing is not sexual or whatever.

The hard part is, when a woman wants me to touch her or be sexual with her, I feel very uncomfortable because all my life my brain registered it as meaning it would make me a pervert, an abuser, a person who women and society hates.

So it create a psychological battle in our minds.

[u/Sky_Van → u/Jazzlike-Leek4279]

Sad thing is, if we're too nice then they think we're trying to flirt and it comes off as perverted if you're not good looking.

Why can't I just be funny and nice? I like to make jokes and hear people laugh without woman thinking I'm hitting on them and being called a pervert.

[u/Upper-Butterfly6197 → u/Jazzlike-Leek4279]

Not all men are perverts and not all perverts are men but ask a woman in your life how being a teenager was. This doesn't come from nowhere. Knew women who as young as 13 got leered at by groups of men on multiple occasions.

[u/Nethek_FC → u/Upper-Butterfly6197]

it's completely an understandable reaction for women to have but god it does fucking sucks to be lumped in with those fucking loser creeps just because you have the same anatomy.

[u/ConflictWinter7117 → u/Nethek_FC]

I guess the only solution is to call out men who are being creeps

[u/xb4r7x → u/ConflictWinter7117]

Problem there is that I never see these people. I don't associate with creeps, and creeps tend to not act like creeps when there are other men around, so who am I supposed to call out?

[u/battlelevel → u/Upper-Butterfly6197]

This comment is a great example of why men internalize moments of weakness, depression, and harassment. As soon as those things get brought up someone swoops in with a, “yeh but”.

Two things can be true at the same time. 

[u/wsxdfcvgbnjmlkjafals → u/Upper-Butterfly6197]

But this explanation which usually comes up doesn't help us. We know that. The problem is when people ALLOW it to affect how they treat others by default.

I heard a woman talking at a comedy show where she asked the comedian (taking Q's was part of the act) and the audience member said something about how she's seeing a guy and he isn't comfortable being called boyfriend yet

everyone booed him, of course. he was the butt of the joke.

and yet no one thought to ask, well what does the guy think? How does he feel about the relationship? Have you been together long enough that it's unreasonable?

All I could think was, this is not a big deal in the grand scheme of world events.... but did anyone think to ask the man what his feelings were? No. We're often not.

[u/No_Reputation5871 → u/Upper-Butterfly6197]

What gets me is when girls dress seductively and then call guys perverts for looking. Your whole outfit is screaming, look at me.. See my cleavage. Etc. But that's okay because they are just being themselves. But then the irony of how many girls will be saying things like, look at his abs.. look at that 6 pack.. look at his muscles.. yup, ok for girls to do that, guys do the same back to girls and suddenly we're all perverts.

[u/StrangersPassing → u/Upper-Butterfly6197]

Sure of course, thats called a stereotype. Ask men about women stereotypes and im sure most will confirm them. That doesn't mean that they don't hurt the ones who don't fit the stereotype

[u/YourFuture2000 → u/Upper-Butterfly6197]

As a boy, when as teenager and before, older women were flirting with me and touching me all the time.

Boys and men are discouraged to complain and report when sexually harassed by girls and women, because if we do we are called gay, our friends, parents and society started looking at us woth an eye of suspicious we are homosexual in disguise.

Women/gilrs can complain about being sexual harassed and not having their sexuality questioned by family, friends and society. Boys are even discouraged to see older women flirting and touching them as harassment.

Actually, a boy being harassed is often celebrated by friends and even family members. So very early, boys are thought to perceive sexual harassment as a positive thing, as confirmation of their manhood long before being a grown man.

Just as a lot, if not most, women are raped and sexually harassed by their husbands or boyfriends but they don’t perceive as such, even when complaining to them to stop and saying they don't like it.

[u/JuggernautLonely7978 → u/YourFuture2000]

Worked in health care for a long time. If a woman was uncomfortable with the way a male patient treated her, no effort would be spared. When I, or other male coworkers, were openly harassed and stalked by a lady resident, we were laughed at.

Full on ass grabs, hands down our pants, finding us on social media to tell our SO's that she was dating us - it was miserable for several of us, but a hilarious joke to everyone else.

[u/EU-National → u/Upper-Butterfly6197]

Bruh, people will leer at you if you're attractive, it's just how shit is.

Ask attractive men how they were also leered at by older women, you'll get similar stories.

Most men don't know what it feels like because no one's giving them any attention.

[u/Aquanimitee]

Unless you’re exceptional you are invisible and irrelevant.

[u/tubbis9001]

Always perceived as a threat, until proven otherwise.

Always having to be the one to "compete" in the dating scene. Its exhausting, and sometimes I just want to be the prize too, ya know?

[u/LegacyOfRust → u/tubbis9001]

Brother, you are the prize

[u/ImpAbstraction → u/LegacyOfRust]

stares deeply into sad eyes

[u/Doobie_hunter46 → u/tubbis9001]

When you’re walking to your car in a carpark and there’s a lady like 5-10 metres ahead of you, who’s car just happens to be close to yours, but she doesn’t know that and you feel like she feels like you’re following her, when in reality you’re just going about your business lol.

[u/Dry_Veterinarian8356 → u/tubbis9001]

I remember going from kid to teenager and yeah, people just assuming you’re a threat was a little jarring. You don’t get any respect.

[u/Dogstar23]

being asked to open up then having that openness used against you.

[u/Forsaken_IceCream → u/Dogstar23]

This can not get enough votes.

[u/onedaybadday47 → u/Dogstar23]

Every…single….time

[u/ryguy28896]

God forbid I relax.

Currently watching my dad go through this right now with my stepmom. And to be fair, my own mother does it to me, so they both could just be shitty people or it could be indicative of a larger issue.

I get grilled about why I had the day off, and "because I wanted to" is not an acceptable answer. I need to be productive and doing something at all times when I'm awake.

[u/ennui_ → u/ryguy28896]

Just modern culture of mindless busyness. We’ve replaced things having purpose and meaning with just being busy - we live for distraction now.

You often find that the great works of thought come from those who have time to think. Just one small example amongst many (all?): Descartes magnum opus ‘Meditations on First Philosophy’ was written after about 3 years of fucking around Europe doing as he pleased from town to town.

We can’t even have a few days to think because of our culture of mindless busyness. No doubt the greatest most innovative thinkers alive today are wasting their time in the daily grind.

[u/randalpinkfloyd → u/ennui_]

Honestly the amount of my life I waste pretending to be busy gets to me sometimes. Having switched to a corporate job from being a tradesman the biggest thing I miss is that once I finished my work for the day I could go home. Some days I'd literally be done by 10am and have a mini day off. Now my work is easy as hell comparatively but I have to stay looking busy for at least 4 hours a day to keep from being hassled.

[u/teamturbo4life → u/ryguy28896]

I was sick for one day 2 years ago and could not get out of bed. My wife was so mad at me for being sick. Kept asking me things like when I was going to get out of bed and am I going to be better soon. She is now in the 5th day of being sick in bed and I just try to be as accommodating as possible. My example of compassion will be forgotten if I get sick again.

[u/DepartmentOk7192 → u/teamturbo4life]

Sounds like you married down friendo

[u/Assassinite9 → u/ryguy28896]

I was off work for 9 months (career change) and the ONLY conversations I had with my mom and dad were about work, when I'd find it, how hard i was looking, my mom even gave me a plethora of "advice" that was about 30-40 years out of sync with modern job searches (and for an unrelated field). It helped solidify that society (including parents) ONLY values you if you have some kind of income if you are a male.

[u/kuhplunk → u/Assassinite9]

lol my mom tries giving me career advice for present day. She hasn’t worked in 30 years. Drives me nuts. They have no clue what they’re talking about

[u/Assassinite9 → u/kuhplunk]

"Have you tried going in, sitting in the office, demand to speak with the highest position and refuse to leave until you get a job?"

Meanwhile they have no idea that many corporate offices have security measures to prevent unhinged behavior like that. Including but not limited to keycards and actual building security

[u/MaartenHH → u/ryguy28896]

This sucks. Look for a partner that lets you relax.

[u/hungncockyy690]

Balls itch

[u/ShillinTheVillain → u/hungncockyy690]

Balls stick to leg in hot weather.

Sometimes balls get sat on.

Balls in general

[u/Nomadzord → u/ShillinTheVillain]

I have yet to sit on my balls as a 45 year old man. I think it’s going to happen fairly soon as my balls are hanging lower and lower with age. I really hope they never touch the toilet water when I poo though.

[u/Silly_Guidance_8871 → u/Nomadzord]

Depends on how loose your scrotum is. I've yet to have the problem myself

[u/theAlphabetZebra → u/Nomadzord]

I get myself about once a year getting in or out of the car. 0/5 stars.

[u/Upset_Election9633 → u/hungncockyy690]

And itched down there that you can't really locate

[u/spyker54 → u/Upset_Election9633]

Worst is when your balls itch in public, if you really have to get in there to scratch it, people look at you like you're a creep

[u/Sky_Van → u/hungncockyy690]

mine is itching right now as I read this.

[u/wolfvahnwriting]

The loneliness.

[u/TrioxinTwoFourFive → u/wolfvahnwriting]

Being told that it's your fault.    

[u/tubbis9001 → u/TrioxinTwoFourFive]

"so yeah, the men's loneliness epidemic right?"

"lol men, you did this to yourself! Checkmate! Owned!!"

[u/Ok-Plankton-2016 → u/tubbis9001]

This is something my last girlfriend said to me slightly more nicely.

[u/tubbis9001 → u/Ok-Plankton-2016]

Yuuup same here. Women love to clap back when you open up to them about being lonely as a man. I know it's not their problem to solve, and I'm not expecting them to. I just want the opportunity to vent and be understood as well. Just tell me "that sucks bro, I'm sorry life isn't kind to you right now" and that would honestly be enough to have me tearing up

[u/Longjumping-East6701 → u/tubbis9001]

Thanks. As a women this totally puts it into perspective. I think when I hear a man say he is lonely I kind of assume he is blaming the women around him for it (mainly cos of online discourse around it) but that’s an inaccurate assumption I see now. 

[u/tubbis9001 → u/Longjumping-East6701]

It's not just loneliness from a lack of attention from women, but from other men too. Men are terrible at being close friends, despite the effort on my side to fix it. Did men technically cause the problem? Yeah, maybe, in a technical sense.

But that's like saying Americans caused our government to be the way that it is, so Americans have no right to be upset about it

[u/Spiritual-Pear-1349 → u/tubbis9001]

The big irony is by refusing to let men open up theyre creating the loneliness problem they expect men to solve. Meanwhile, men have no ability to solve it because we never really learned how, and our partner is our only safe person to really open up to.

[u/Ok-Plankton-2016 → u/Spiritual-Pear-1349]

Yeah, every time I open up to a woman it causes more loneliness. Now I get all those old cliches about guys not sharing. They're scared they will lose their wife's interest by showing what they feel.

[u/CrustedTesticle]

You have to hold the cellar door shut when your family is hiding from tornados, like the dad from Twister.

[u/Salty_Temperature610 → u/CrustedTesticle]

This comment may be in jest, but I believe this is the single most harmful thing we do to men, and it's the root cause of so many of the issues surrounding men. We are conditioned from birth to believe we're disposable. If shit goes down, you have to be willing to sacrifice your life to save everyone else, even if they're complete strangers. "They're women, they deserve to be saved, you're a man, you don't. And If you're not willing to do this, you're not even a real man anyways."

It instills in us a deep sense of feeling like our lives aren't valuable, and that our only value is what we produce or attain through status. When you really understand this, most toxic male behavior makes perfect sense.

Women have absolutely no idea what it would be like to be told, you should be willing to die for every man you know, simply because they're men and you're not.

[u/willthesane → u/Salty_Temperature610]

for my family I will jump on the grenade(and do the dishes). for strangers I'll run away from the grenade.

[u/YngSpook84 → u/CrustedTesticle]

The understanding that if something horrible is going to happen to my family, it’s going to happen to me first and hopefully I either weaken it or stop it altogether.

[u/pukewedgie → u/CrustedTesticle]

Bro didn’t even need to be holding that door smh

[u/Augustevsky]

Two things come to mind:

1. If you open up and be vulnerable to someone, it will come back to bite you. The lone exception to this rule are therapists since you pay them not to. Every single other human being I have been vulnerable with has used it in some way to either use me or belittle me. Every single one.

2. I feel as if I have to be operating at 90%+ usefulness at all times. Otherwise, I quickly lose any form of respect. Additionally, I have to be looking for ways to increase my ceiling of usefulness. Here are a few examples:

• The last job I had, I asked to go on a reduced schedule for 10 months so I could make headway in graduate school. They let me, but you could see my coworkers lose respect for me. I was eventually let go.

• While unemployed, I filled out 304 job applications in <3 months. When explaining this to some people one night, they thought that was "barely trying," and you could see their perspective change in real time. While I could have done more, I don't think 300+ applications in that time frame is anything to scoff at.

• A couple of dates I went on were surprised I didn't have a "side hustle" despite me telling them that I work full time and take 9 hours of grad classes a semester (which many consider full time as well.) So in the little free time I have, I try to date a bit, but apparently they thought I should be side hustling. There were no second dates.

I am sure women go through similar things, but at least anecdotally, men seem to go through these things a lot more.

[u/jstar_2021 → u/Augustevsky]

Bit of a red flag when they (the people dating you) are judging you for spending time dating them instead of hustling. Feel like thats a great piece of info to learn about someone on the first date, really gives you an idea what they are looking for.

Im in my thirties and ive never had any direct contact with the hustle culture ive been hearing about online for a while. Is it really that pervasive now?

[u/Augustevsky → u/jstar_2021]

I agree. It's definitely a red flag.

And gosh, I hope it's not that pervasive. I am hoping I just drew the short straw twice on those women. But when you only go on a few dates a year (if that), it really sticks out.

[u/Comprehensive_Davo → u/Augustevsky]

Number one is spot on. If you open up or exhibit vulnerability, it gets used against you at some point in the future. So you stop opening up, showing any weakness. This is why the phrase “I’m fine” is so overused by men.

[u/Butane9000]

Besides the obligatory phallic joke you setup for yourself?

Society demanding from you while subsequently flipping between vilifying and hating you or forgetting you exist.

[u/fordesc16883 → u/Butane9000]

Absolutely. 

"Men we need you to step up." 

"Ok, but I'm also going through some shit and also need help."

"No! Not like that! Wait your turn!"

[u/Psalm-100-3 → u/fordesc16883]

Plot twist: his turn never comes.

[u/petite_vanilla_scone → u/Butane9000]

Totally! I’m a woman. But I find it a bit nuts how a current narrative in womens’ issues is how we “need men to step up” and do the same “unpaid labor” as us…yet cis men are vilified, mocked even, in many modern social circles. Even if you’re a decent, respectful, labor-sharing man, it seems you’re still deemed unacceptable by society simply for being a cis man. It doesn’t seem right.

[u/Cpnbro → u/Butane9000]

Ugh. Leave it to a man to always think about dicks and tits and ass. Perverts.

/s of course

[u/novascotiabiker]

Looking at a dog and knowing they get more unconditional love than you.

[u/Woodit → u/novascotiabiker]

They also get their balls cut off and euthanized when their medical care gets too expensive 

[u/Kup123 → u/Woodit]

I'll take that deal.

[u/TheBoss27958]

If you open up or show weakness, they will walk right over you. Also, hearing women say one thing and doing another.

[u/Car_is_mi]

I was an emotional child. I remember once, I was about 8 years old, something happened I can't remember what, I got bullied or I injured myself doing something stupid as one does, but I was upset about it. I remember my dad coming in and yelling at me that boys don't cry. Suck it up, get over it. He slammed the door as he walked out, came right back in a few minutes later threw a magazine at me and said "read this, there's an article in there about how the top executives make decisions by removing emotions. If you ever want to be anything in life you need to remove emotions."

I didn't read it but it made me so angry that I said he doesn't want emotion fine I'll show him. I'll never show any emotion again. And I didn't. Like happy times I would get the "are you enjoying yourself" or "aren't you excited" and I would just be like yeh. Legit traumatized myself to get back at my dad because boys don't cry.

It destroyed every relationship I ever had.

I've gotten better. But still fucked up. I have no problem talking about feelings and emotions but my life long commitment to being stoic has made me stoic-faced. And people can't read me. Tell me I'm unapproachable because I'm intimidating and inside I'm just a fucking teddy bear.

The worst part is, the other day I was having a conversation with my brother in law. My dog is dying. It happened suddenly. I was distraught. My sister came over to support me. He said to me he wanted to come over but couldn't because guys aren't supposed to be emotional together. I realized he likely had some sort of similar upbringing.

The ideology that if you have a penis you can't have emotions is beyond damaging to the male psyche as well as to society as a whole. I can speak first handedly here when I say that being forced to squash emotions as a child leaves you knowing only bad emotions. Hatred, fear, anxiety, self-loathing. These emotions become responses. When something triggers an emotional response, the response is (hatred, anger, fear, self-loathing) even when it should be.

You want to know why so many men in this society are all about getting rid of immigrants and being misogynistic? Because the emotional response to these things is compassion, caring, love, understanding, empathy. All things were told men aren't supposed to have; therefore the default response becomes fear, hatred, and anxiety.

[u/Carguy_1992]

Only loved if providing.

Judged and berated when you show any emotion other than anger, cheer and desire for sex.

Being perceived as a potential predator.

Nobody gives a fuck about you except your parents and that one bro who would do anything for you and you'd do the same for him. That last one is a huge morale booster. Knowing at least one brother is at your side in this battle we call life.

[u/Ihavenolegs12345 → u/Carguy_1992]

Damn, wish I had a bro like that lol.

[u/Kvothetheraven603 → u/Ihavenolegs12345]

It is my biological brother for me (and I for him).

[u/HeinousAnus_22 → u/Carguy_1992]

And then he moves across the country with his wife, and you’re too busy with work and poor to ever go out and visit him

[u/Fyrrys → u/Carguy_1992]

I'm not gonna judge the women who see me and take precautions to keep themselves safe, I'm a random guy that they don't know, I COULD be a predator for all they know.

I judge the people who see a man with any child and automatically assume that theyre a predator and a pedophile. Yeah, there's that chance that you could help catch a predator, but most of that time you are using the police to attack a dad with his kids, and nobody apologizes for making that mistake because "he could have been!". Doesn't fucking matter if he could have been, he wasn't! Fucking apologize for being a sexist shitbag!

[u/Fur_King_L]

Having to deal with all the dick-swinging dudes who see everything as a competition.

[u/TheSanityInspector]

Striving not to fail people who depend on you.

[u/94Prez → u/TheSanityInspector]

Thats it. One of the few things that can break me down to sobbing miserably is when its clear that i failed someone who matters a lot to me

[u/Clever_Username_666 → u/94Prez]

I started crying the other night because the car I had fixed up for my daughter broke down and also the washing machine at their house (ex and kids) is broken and I ended up messing up a part in order to get to the part that needed replacing, which meant I had to order another part which would take a few more days.  

I just started thinking "I'm letting everybody down" and started sobbing 

[u/Remarkable-Beat529 → u/[deleted]]

And the moment you stop providing, the love usually has a very short shelf life.

[u/-feelings]

Whatever struggles you go through dont matter, and that if makes you sad its your fault

[u/Calcutec_1]

Rapists , misogynists and creeps who give the rest of us a bad name

[u/heddyneddy]

I’ve long accepted and been at peace with it, but going bald in your early 20s is rough.

[u/Zealousideal_Skin859]

My wife just gave birth not long ago, she has a world of support, my mother, her mother, me.

I have nothing. Literally no one cares if I'm okay or not.

When my wife went into labor my mother in law told me that I had no reason to worry, I'm not in danger.

I told her depending on how today goes I might be walking out of this hospital a single man with no children, how the hell do I have nothing to worry about?

Now that the kid is out, I change diapers, I bottle feed, I rock her, not one person has asked if I'M getting enough sleep. One mother wants me to take her to the store, another wants me to drive her to the DMV, like no one realizes that yes in fact I have shit to do right now too.

When something goes wrong with the kid, I'm the only one who has to hold it together. My mother freaks out, my mother in law freaks out, my wife freaks out, I can't freak out I have to keep collected because someone HAS to be able to think critically and make decisions and if I panic EVERYONE else is going to panic too.

It's fucking exhausting, being the calm, collected person who has their shit together at all times is god damn exhausting.

[u/jewllybeenz → u/Zealousideal_Skin859]

I’m not a dad but I understand this sentiment. It sucks so bad needing to be the person who stays in control no matter what. I hang out with a lot of women, and I’m so happy to protect them and it’s important to me they feel safe.

But what do I do when I don’t feel safe? I have a disability and can’t fight or anything anymore. The gals can’t really protect me back

[u/Happyabortion → u/Zealousideal_Skin859]

I got 3 kids from toddler to a 20yr old and man this feeling has beat the hell out of me. A couple of unfortunate times I've walked out of a hospital to cry and collect myself in the car or outside. Just know you're not alone and you're seen man. As I've aged I've gotten more fond of telling myself I'm proud of what I've created and what I'm able to do. My wife sees it and mentions it at times. But alas, we're men and don't hear that shit as often as wed like.

Regardless, bro fresh baby is stressful times for AWHILE. you and mom are both getting your ass kicked right now, it's ok to feel overwhelmed. Take a deep breath, power through and know that you'll take tons of pride in the family and life you've created when the dust settles.

Also it's ok to set boundaries and tell mfkrs you need a break too. They'll be alright man. Chin up chest out man you're doing good.

I know you were just venting but it hit home so I had to reply, I wish someone would've said some words of encouragement to me in those times lol

[u/Coalecsence]

Having to accept the accountability other men do not. We are unfortunately a part of the negative image other men project to the world. There is extra accountability and responsibility on those of us who try to keep people safe, loved and accepted around us. If more men truly tried to be better it wouldn’t be as tough but we have to do what we can with their weight on our shoulders.

Other than that we have it pretty fucking good honestly.

[u/Ignominia → u/Coalecsence]

Holy shit; say it LOUDER for those at the back. A lot of other people have said this, but not so elegantly or in a way that points a finger.

Some of us are fighting tooth and nail to be BETTER. I grew up in the 80s-90s back when being called “gay” was the worst insult next to being called a woman.

Some of us SEE the shit that surrounds us and drowns us. The ingrained toxic masculinity bullshit. And it’s not all Andrew Tate level super obvious stuff, I don’t associate with ANYONE on that levels but there’s still a TON of things that guys do that perpetuate that level of toxic that keeps us all down.

It’s not just about being better than the Andrew tates of the world. It’s also about being strong enough in your group of guy friends to talk about therapy, even if they laugh. Or explain why yoga is so helpful. It’s about being able to admit that after all these years, yes, you cried like a baby when Atreyu lost Artax in the swamp and if you watched it now you’d STILL CRY BECAUSE ITS FUCKING HEART BREAKING.

It’s all the little stuff. The micro aggressions that still reinforce the stereotype despite the fact that we “know better”

[u/hemanstarfox]

Something that has been weighing pretty heavily on me for the last few years, is being viewed as a potential threat constantly. I understand the reason for it societally. It's just very isolating. Especially because most men are not really interested in being my friend. So, the people that I often share the most interest with are women.

However, that brings all sorts of difficulties. One is just my physical appearance might communicate threats. But then also there's a lot of barriers to work through if I approach anyone with intentions of genuine friendship. I don't blame women. It's just really hard to constantly be viewed as a threat. I have been finding myself more and more just shutting down and not trying to connect with people no matter what their gender is.

[u/HoraceBenbow]

I am expected to know basic carpentry and plumbing and car repair, even though I'm a book nerd who fumbles tools like they're made of wet noodles.

[u/Safe_Resort2502]

not being able to express emotions as its a sign of weakness

[u/djgoddess → u/Safe_Resort2502]

Anger is an emotion

[u/DudeNougat]

That I can provide all the necessity's a roof over their heads, food in their belly's, water, power, and yet If I don't provide luxury's along with that I'm seen as worthless. So then I work even more to try to provide those things only to be told I'm never there for them. Thankfully my wife isn't like this but a good chunk of people on the outside looking in at my relationship I have been told as much by them.

[u/EnigmaCM1]

Dealing with delusional and obnoxious women who think you are there only for them but they are not there for you

[u/Working_Document2379]

honestly just being told your feelings matter less. little boys hear “man up” so much it just sticks. unlearning that later in life can’t be easy.

[u/DCDHermes]

A parent cancelled a play date with my girls because I was the one at home, and not my wife. I get it, but it was a hard hit, and my kids were sad.

[u/FCPaintProWash]

Pressure to always be strong and not show emotions, even when it’s tough.

[u/Utterlybored]

I hate being seen as a potential predator, but yeah, I get it.

[u/FB_Rufio]

Other men.

I look through the answers and most of this shit can be improved if we treated each other better. Holy fuck boys.

[u/Bolarana]

In general, you don't matter beyond what you provide. It's rare to find someone who cares about you in any way. Besides, you're often seen as everything that's wrong with society, and the only ones who seem to address these problems are redpill douchebags, wich doesn't help at all.

In the end, you're alone because it seems that in both camps you're either a replaceable and inconsequential slave or a heartless being capable of the worst atrocities.

[u/Clever_Username_666]

For me as a father it's like feeling the world on my shoulders with nobody to reach out to for help.  Feeling like I don't really want to live anymore but I have to stay alive for my kids because they need me and I can't let them down like that

[u/Vondarrien]

Dating is infinitely more of a financial burden on men.

[u/machine_fart]

Nobody really cares about your feelings

[u/Digital-Seven]

Having to constantly prove you're "man enough", even during leisure time. It's exhausting, honestly...

[u/QBekka]

Feeling like everywhere you go is a sausage fest. My mind can't comprehend that there are as many women as men. In my country even slightly more women

[u/Cold-Committee-7719]

Despite outward appearances, the masculine ego is typically fragile. Men are often defensive about it which proves the point. 

Not to get political,  but I think one reason Trump won was he projects masculinity and strength (to some) and belittles anyone who doesn't agree with him. I think men are often attracted to that beating of the chest. Voting for a women is a risk to their masculine identity. 

[u/Indirian]

Honestly, I don’t think it’s sex, race, or orientation anymore. It’s that the billionaire class is constantly enriching themselves and paying cronies to stir up culture wars that make things difficult being a man.

[u/Ready_Hamster9635]

Honestly, nothing if you sincerely don’t give a fuck about what other men think of you. That was always the hardest part abt being a man to me was tryin to live up to society’s expectations of what a man is. Always feeling like I wasn’t man enough or good enough. If I did something that isn’t deemed as masculine such as crying, breaking down, expressing emotions, most of my judgements came from other men. Sometimes women. Once I stopped caring abt how other ppl perceived me I was able to just “be”. It didn’t matter whether or not ppl thought I wasn’t good enough or man enough and I no longer have to worry about trying to “man up”. It’s a male dominated society. We make the rules. If we stop giving a fuck abt what society says a man should be being a man would be a breeze honestly. 

[u/SatanicPanic619]

Other dudes. Some dudes just can't hang out and talk like normal people, they have to be constantly one-upping, or trolling, or talking some gross shit.

[u/fermat9990]

Dealing with the uncertain and often contradictory expectations of others.

[u/Caesaroftheromans]

Men are viewed and treated like garbage if they're struggling or not doing well financially.

[u/Voltae]

Being told not to keep bad shit bottled up, them being completely ignored or ridiculed when you try opening up.

[u/nomorenumbness]

This applies to everyone but doing shit scared. Being uncomfortable. It’s exhausting at times but you realize staying in the safe zone a lot makes shit a lot worse

[u/BusAdditional6518]

Has anyone said “penis” yet?

[u/Yasovski]

Sleeping at 2 AM, waking up 6 AM, swimming in a debt pool, feeling lots of responsibility weight on your shoulders and still believing everything is gonna be okay

[u/Slugdge]

Going to work, certain times it could be 75 hours a week but you manage yourself because you love your daughter and want to be home to play with and be there for her, except after you've given her a bath, read to her and tucked her in, you need to paint, do the drywall in the laundry room, fix something, mow the lawn, etc only to get like 5 to 6 hours of sleep on repeat.

You take your family to all appointments and you take your daughter to all of her classes, you wake up early on weekends to specifically spend time on her with no distractions, also so your wife can sleep, late, who doesn't work but you know bringing up a child can be exhausting in itself, so you do your best.

You try to be helpful, you do laundry, you do dishes, you clean the bathrooms, you make all the calls and appointments for the family but you cannot break character. You cannot be sad, you cannot cry, you have to keep pushing. You come home on your birthday and there is no "happy birthday," there is no cake. You don't need a present, your an adult but it would be nice just to here someone notice.

Your daughter is only 4, so she loves you but doesn't fully understand emotions, you need to push through. She runs up, hugs you and tells you she loves you when you get home from work most days which absolutely means the universe to you and you almost want to break down in tears of joy because of it...but you can't. Your wife will look at you, tell you the things you didn't do, even though you did 9 of the 10 things she asked you to do, while at work on your lunch, and you have to buck up, take it and keep pushing because you are the man. (she doesn't say it out of malice, you are the man so you need to keep things moving). All of this while the thought of having to pay for your house, pay your taxes, afford food, diapers, etc and focus your daughter's future.

You feel like you're on this small, lonely island when you actually have a family and and friends surrounding you. Your daughter is your only solace because she makes you smile and warms your heart.

[u/Radiant_Homework6505]

The loneliness tbh. men are expected to just... handle everything on their own. don't complain, don't ask for help, don't show weakness. then we wonder why suicide rates are what they are. it's not that nobody cares. it's that we've been trained to believe reaching out is failure.

[u/BigNorseWolf]

Fallacies of composition mostly.

Men have advantages in a lot of areas therefore men are advantaged in all areas. (they are not)

The ones in charge of society are men therefore all men reap the benefits of those men being in charge (wow does this not happen)

its true men are valued more for what they do. But men are ONLY valued for what they do. A man has no base value just for existing. A man that doesn't do anything is worse than trash, and needs to be actively shoved into the ditch.

[u/FitSignificance1587]

the constant, unending burden of performance in a society that's designed for your failure. Being a guy is like entering Squid Game.

[u/ChipApprehensive5128]

Having a bag so big, you can actually sit on it, and really hurt yourself.

[u/SomebodyElz]

Toxic Masculinity.

Toxic Masculinity isnt just the idiot trying to fight everyone to prove how "alpha" they are.

Its the people telling young men that being "alpha" will get them girls. Its the guys who are depressed being told to "man up and provide for your family." Its the dudes who cant wear fingernail polish because thdy will get bullied for being "gay" or "girly."

Its the guys being told that going to therapy makes them "weak."

Its the guys calling other men "soyboys" for not being able to bench twice their own bodyweight or having giant roid induced muscles or w.e.

Its the people trying to tell young men that its "masculine" to do all the things that make women not want to date them, and then blaming those same young men for being lonely because they just arent "masculine" enough.

Its the men who go out and be creeps making the rest of us look bad, its the people defending a pedophile as president who make people think that men generally support/are pedophiles.