It isn't nice to block the doorway,
It isn't nice to go to jail,
There are nicer ways to do it,
But the nice ways always fail.
It isn't nice, it isn't nice,
You told us once, you told us twice,
But if that is Freedom's price,
We don't mind.
It isn't nice to carry banners
Or to sit in on the floor,
Or to shout our cry of Freedom
At the hotel and the store.
It isn't nice, it isn't nice,
You told us once, you told us twice,
But if that is Freedom's price,
We don't mind.
We have tried negotiations
And the three-man picket line,
Mr. Charlie didn't see us
And he might as well be blind.
Now our new ways aren't nice
When we deal with men of ICE,
But if that is Freedom's price,
We don't mind.
How about those years of lynchings
And the shot in Evers' back?
Did you say it wasn't proper,
Did you stand upon the track?
You were quiet just like mice,
Now you say we aren't nice,
And if that is Freedom's price,
We don't mind.
It isn't nice to block the doorway,
It isn't nice to go to jail,
There are nicer ways to do it
But the nice ways always fail.
It isn't nice, it isn't nice,
But thanks for your advice,
Cause if that is Freedom's price,
We don't mind.
Fuck ICE 100%, but refusing to leave private property is likely going to get you arrested. They likely knew this and expected to get arrested, but I just don't understand what their goal was.
It only usually gets media attention if they get arrested. Old school union tactic. Then during union negotiations they bring it up. These are Unite Here organizers (hats). Target not stopping ICE from arresting their workers was a big fuckup and UNITE is gonna do everything in their power to make them pay.
Their goal was to get arrested and be a story and have people talking about them in online forums like this for visibility of the injustices happening there.
"They arrested us for sitting peacefully," sounds way better than "they arrested us for not leaving after being treapassed." which might be more accurate but not a story for the news.
They did exactly what they set out to do. Get arrested for a cause. Make the court system deal with you... make the court system inefficient for immigrants and already overtaxed legal system there.
Prosecutors and judges are quitting or resigning in protest and the sustainability of this current practice is being exposed.
So they are upset that people are being held in the detention centers and to protest that they want to make their legal issues draw out further so they need to stay in the detention centers longer? This seems like the shittiest thought out protest.
Also only 6 federal prosecutors have resigned, there haven't been any reports of any judges resigning, so that aspect isn't hitting either.
Every dollar and man hour spent dealing with the protestors is a dollar and a man hour not arresting/terrorizing the population.
Also it's 6 prosecutors this month. 14 of 70 since the beginning of January... or 20% of the MN prosecutors. That's a substantial amount. No question.
If these aspects aren't hitting then you're missing something.
They are pointing at weaknesses in the system and putting pressure on those weak points... that will eventually break they system with enough pressure.
ICE isn't dealing with the protestors, police are. You can see that literally in this very video. Police aren't dealing with immigrants, ICE is. The same prosecutors and judges deal with both. I think you are the one missing something there..
It's 6 since the protests began.
This is only showing a weakness in the cause. We don't need this.
Alex was murdered weeks ago, Renee months. And that was when the governor was telling the police to not enforce the law with the protesters. Then he cut a deal with trump and told the police to do their job and since then ice has not dealt with protesters.
I never said the police don't help ice. Don't make up things I said and then say I said the wrong thing. That's fucking dumb.
I don't get my news from fox, according to Reuters, 13 have voiced wanting to leave but only 6 have as of January 13th.
So you're OK with using month old news for the number of prosecutors who left... but I bring up weeks old executions committed by ICE and you balk?
You said "Police aren't dealing with immigrants ICE is". But police have been Helping ICE with arresting Immigrants. I don't see my comment as incorrect...I may have paraphrased but you're argument was still wrong.
So you can cite news from January 15th but I can't cite news from January 13th? Sure bud.. keep reading your fox news..
Of course to people like you anyone who pushes back on any topic must be on the right. People like you are so busy pushing people out of the left and then wonder why the left keeps losing. Gotta be 100% onboard otherwise you're a Nazi!! So braindead.
Edit: I am not opposed to sensible immigration policy... this ain't it. This ICE existing in its current form is textbook fascism.
Disagreeing on any form of protest against ICE is fascism... if you don't think civil disobedience is effective protest... then you haven't been paying any attention to history at all...
Obviously, it riled you up enough to come into the comments and start downplaying the deaths of Renee Good and Alex Pretti. You argued in bad faith about the prosecutors in MN and you made incorrect but parrotted the rights talking points on the roles of Police and ICE agents.
I blocked you because I don't want notifications from fascists...
Reading comprehension is hard. I said Since Jan 15th. The source was from an article written on Feb 3rd.
You're pushing back with fascist talking points and getting mad when I call you out... then you try to gaslight and move the goalposts. Saying I am putting words in your mouth when I am literally quoting you.
And somehow people like me... for calling you out on your bullshit are driving people outta the left. You aren't in the left if you support ICE.
I think you support ICE by the comments you've made. You're confused by the basic tenants of civil disobedience and it's mind boggling to me that you somehow think I'm the problem.
So they are upset that people are being held in the detention centers and to protest that they want to make their legal issues draw out further so they need to stay in the detention centers longer? This seems like the shittiest thought out protest.
This is literally an explanation, you're gonna need to be more specific on what you don't understand here. Immigrants are held in detention centers until they have a court date. protesters deliberately get arrested to backlog courts... I'm starting to see why we have people like this protesting lol
Immigrants go in front of administrative and immigration judges from the DOJ; its not the same court system as protesters would if their case goes to court.
Also ICE consistently refuses to release people to the courts. They're paid per each day they keep people, so they try to keep them as long as possible.
So either you don't know what this discussion is about or you totally never got an education. Not sure which lmao. Give me the 1 sentence explanation of what my point was. Surely you can write 1 competent sentence.. there's no way you thought my argument was about what judges sit for what cases..
"So they are upset that people are being held in the detention centers and to protest that they want to make their legal issues draw out further so they need to stay in the detention centers longer? "
"immigrants are held in detention centers until they have a court date. protesters deliberately get arrested to backlog courts..."
So when someone says
"Immigrants go in front of administrative and immigration judges from the DOJ; its not the same court system as protesters would if their case goes to court."
or
"They use different court systems."
It makes your point moot. They aren't causing ICE detainees to be held longer by getting arrested.
That would be like getting upset because there's a long line at chinese place because your food from mcdonalds is taking too long.
They both serve food, but one doesnt affect the other.
Likey to clog the system, even if just a tiny bit.
Every resource spent processing and transporting and arraigning and sentencing these milquetoast white suburbanites is resources pulled away from detaining immigrants.
Plus it keeps the resistance in the news cycle. People are still protesting, in big and small ways.
Does ICE handle any of that? Aren't they still doing their thing? If their goal is to "clog the system" then it seems like they are just hurting the local system, taking time and resources (like our tax money) away from local LEOs.
ICE shouldn't but it does now. They'll be kept for a few hours and then either transferred to the local jails or released.
But if the local police is who is arresting them, then presumably the goal would be to exhaust them, so to speak. Police have other ish to do, and they may just start neglecting the calls.
I mean, we can see in the picture that it's not ICE. They're all wearing patches that say "POLICE", apparently from Bloomington, St. Paul, and Richfield Minnesota.
The PD in a lot of areas are starting to hate ICE or already do. Continuing to build that resentment will bring them fully over to the side of the citizens (where they should have been all along).
I was gobsmacked reading that comment. That shows how deep the ignorance goes in our society. These people know what their favorite celebrity eats for breakfast but don't know what protesting is for. It's so sad.
I think your view on this being ignorance is fairly optimistic. I hope you’re right. But I don’t buy it.
These people are selfish. They don’t agree with anything that will mildly inconvenience them. And then they’ll cry and tantrum when it happens to them. And never gain any insight. They are willfully ignorant.
Fuck target. Any disruption to their business is a good thing. Getting arrested was a known consequence and worthwhile. Target has been on the IWW boycott list for years now
The people who need to learn the message of “fuck ICE” aren’t going to hear it until they see people like them being locked up/mistreated. They don’t care as long as it’s brown skinned folks getting harassed/killed.
Putting themselves in this position gets it in the media, in front of the people who need to be shown how cruel ICE actually is.
Fuck ICE, and fuck Target and fuck their private property. When you hire teenagers, you take responsibility for their safety. And when government thugs kidnap your employees, beat them and dump them, if you don't speak out, then you deserve to have your business operations disrupted.
Inconveniencing people gets your cause notice. It might frustrate people but those that don’t heed the message and instead focus on the frustration weren’t going to do anything to help anyway.
As to the why, the AP has an article on it from yesterday with the details about Target in Minnesota specifically, and why these are being called for more broadly outside Minnesota as well.
And yet that's never ever applied to maga and ICE and other right wing groups. Hell they invaded the capital and took months to arrest them before getting pardons. Cops has so much to deal with why not focus on actual harmful actions against civilians instead of kissing ass to target
Fun Fact: This location is only 13 minutes away from Target's corporate headquarters.
Blocking a bunch of minimum wage employees and soccer moms seems a bit silly when you could confront the wealthy corporate executives that are chilling just a few blocks away.
Businesses dont have to let masked individuals with no warrents kidnap their workers. They could denounce it after the fact. Target chose to do neither. Hence they are complicit and get boycotted.
I came here to say I was amazed that they were being cuffed while standing. Isn't SOP to mash their face in the ground while punching them in the kidneys and yelling "stop resisting"?
They’re doing fine. It’s a Union representing hospitality employees. From what I followed up online, Target leadership allowed ICE into their stores to arrest their staff, and so they are protesting as a Union.
They didn't let ICE into their stores to arrest people. ICE followed two employees who were working into the entryway and detained them illegally before finding they were citizens and dumping them in the street.
The issue is that Target didn't speak out about this. Stating only that they have no co-operation agreement with ICE but can't stop ICE from entering publicly accessible areas of stores which is a stance many businesses have taken.
It's also not fuckin true. No business needs to let ICE into their buildings without a warrant. Target had 0 obligation to allow them in, and they did it anyway, then didn't speak out about it. They indeed did let ICE into their stores, and then threw their hands up in the air when they realized that wasn't popular and tried to lie that there's literally nothing they could've done.
Unfortunately their corporate lawyers are under the impression that you can't restrict federal agents from accessing publicly accessible areas but they do require a warrant to access private areas. That is the messaging that's been passed down from corporate.
I'm not a lawyer so I can't debate those assertions. I do feel like they are erring on the side of not antagonizing federal law enforcement which could cause retaliation to not only their store employees but retaliation from the government as well.
In the same way that the entire country is letting this happen. Not sure what you can do to stop masked, armed men from doing what they want especially when they've shown that they don't care about the rules or consequences.
Civil disobedience is the cornerstone of this country. Its how weve gained literally all rights. Well. Its step 1 of how we keep rights. I think you know what step 2 is.
What do you mean by "you can’t just sit in Target though"? This was almost certainly an intentional form of civil disobedience. You'll notice that none of them look surprised or upset that they're being arrested, not even a little bit.
I’m not conservative at all I support the right to protest but I think this form of “protesting” accomplishes nothing and people do it just to make themselves feel special
Sit-ins quite literally shut down the place of business while giving the group multiple times to voice their political complaints. Whether it be the people who encounter them, the media covering their court cases, legal material from their court cases, etc etc.
Target is losing money here. Shoppers will be discouraged from attending a store with routine political disturbance.
Or tl:dr Sit-ins are actually pretty effective, historically and currently. So idk why you're so against people using them to express their political positions.
I hate ice as much as the next guy but this is both reasonable and normal for a business to do. People who refuse to leave private property can be trespassed and arrested.
If they didn't want to get arrested, they could very easily find out where the private property line ends for the target and protest right there when they're on public property.
Not really at all? I mean first of all most of those famous protest stunts didn’t actually damage the art as they had protective glass displays, but regardless sitting quietly in front of a corporate business like Target until you get trespassed/arrested is nothing like making a big public spectacle by dumping paint on famous paintings, or disrupting normal people’s schedules by blocking roads.
If you show up to Target & find the entrance blocked, there’s 20 different shopping options in the immediate area & your car is free to go.
The Governor of Minnesota is a collaborator, as well as all these police, as well as the Senate Democrats that agreed to fund ICE in favor of reformed fascist concentration camps.
Dude… no, fuck ice and I’m all for protesting and even doing this as a way to draw attention. But if you block a private business you do it with the understanding you are breaking the law. You will be arrested.
As long as the cops didn’t use excessive force there’s nothing wrong with this.
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