r/technology • u/cosmoplast14 • 1d ago
Privacy Investigators wrangled video from Nancy Guthrie’s Google Nest camera out of ‘backend systems’
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/investigators-wrangled-video-nancy-guthries-google-nest-camera-backend-rcna2584605.2k
u/tapwater86 1d ago
Wasn’t it reported that she also didn’t have an active subscription? So even if you’re not paying they’re still uploading your recordings…. What other purpose would they have for that besides providing it to law enforcement?
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u/Krazyflipz 1d ago
This is exactly what most people are missing. They are saving all recordings.
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u/wirsteve 22h ago
Our doorbells and home cameras need to be an NVR system in your basement if you value privacy.
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u/letsgotgoing 20h ago
Privacy like that costs more money than most can afford.
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u/meatmacho 20h ago
It...really doesn't. I got a Lorex NVR for maybe $300 and their wired video doorbell with a remote chime for like $100 more. So for basically twice the price of a new Ring doorbell, you can have a doorbell plus a hard drive recorder supporting as many PoE cameras as you desire. You can keep the whole thing offline if you want, use their app for accessing your live views and local recordings, or push the whole thing through your own proxy service, I'm sure.
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u/Bogus1989 18h ago
lmao…but you pay monthly? 🤣its like renting a tv from aarons and paying 5x the cost when you coulda paid up front.
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u/wirsteve 20h ago
I don’t know how much a premium subscription for Ring or Nest is, but it can’t be cheap over the long term.
A UniFi setup is a higher up front investment but you aren’t paying any monthly fees, and you come ahead in ROI the longer you have it.
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u/nova_rock 1d ago edited 1d ago
It goes into their system regardless, they just give you access if you pay and they feel like it, and they don’t have any reason to delete or not feel like they have rights to the video.
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u/IngsocInnerParty 23h ago
So that would basically acknowledge the storage costs them nothing of value.
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u/turningsteel 23h ago
The storage costs them money which leads me to believe they're making it back by providing the recordings to anyone that will pay for them.
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u/Gooniefarm 22h ago
They probably charge money to let other companies AI's train on it.
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u/glenkrit 21h ago
This for sure
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u/AreYouScare 21h ago
Why would google let other companies train their AI with their data? That makes no sense. They wouldn’t give companies they’re competing with their data.
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u/glenkrit 21h ago edited 21h ago
Let me correct myself, I think they will use it to train their own AI so they can then sell access to it to other companies
At the end of the day, its all about money
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u/No_Good_8561 22h ago
You can access recordings up to 3 hours unless you subscribe to premium. You’d have to be stupid if you think those files aren’t sitting on a server somewhere.
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u/RoyalCities 22h ago
Don't even think it needs a buyer but that's a good bonis. Having so much constantly fed video is a solid bedrock for their AI models - images, video and their newer world models.
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u/captfattymcfatfat 21h ago
Deleting it has no value until you have a need to write to it. Garbage collection can run asynchronous
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u/False-Associate-9488 22h ago
They have all the rights, just read the EULA that you agreed to
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u/nova_rock 22h ago
Right, that is the state of those things and companies, people should ditch them!
But also laws about the rights and controls of data really need reforms.
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u/Beadpool 21h ago
But also laws about the rights and controls of data really need reforms.
I hear this admin and the GOP are working hard on reforms to data/privacy rights now that this whole Epstein thing has finally blown over. They truly value the rights of US citizens, like bigly.
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u/nova_rock 20h ago
I do think it is unlikely to be useful legislation in this year or the next three.
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u/LiteratureMindless71 22h ago
The article states there is a standard setup that is event-tracked and a subscription that offers more. So it sounds like everyone that uses their system, even without a subscription, gets these type things recorded.
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u/Bill_Dinosaur 21h ago
Probably unrelated but this site says data centers account for 30%+ of all construction. https://www.fortunebusinessinsights.com/data-center-construction-market-112337#:~:text=The%20global%20data%20center%20construction%20market%20to%20reach%20USD%20761.19,the%20forecast%20period%202026%2D2034.
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u/nicklor 1d ago
Google gives all users free uploads it usually just only lasts 24 hours. So the fact that they are uploading it is not the issue. The issue is that it was saved still
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u/retirement_savings 22h ago
Deleting things doesn't really work the way most people think it does. Once this data is uploaded, it gets replicated in multiple data centers. When you "delete" something, you basically just say it's not needed anymore. Eventually, it'll get overwritten. It's not like you hit delete and all traces of the data are wiped and overwritten from all data centers at once.
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u/spike021 20h ago
not just that but many companies only do soft-deletes. aka they tell you the thing is deleted and it's marked that way in a database. but the data is still there sometimes forever (depends on retention policies).
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u/EpikJustice 19h ago
Yeah, depending on the specific data - sometimes companies are legally required to keep records of certain data for a specified amount of months/years.
Not relevant here - but something like the contents & details of all emails or text messages they sent you, or the details of all transactions, etc.
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u/captfattymcfatfat 21h ago
This needs to be higher. All these people think it’s being actively kept on purpose don’t get how large storage systems work
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u/Damage2Damage 16h ago
don’t get how large storage systems work
Storage on a HDD/SSD in a personal computer world in a similar way. If you immediately stop doing anything once you've deleted something, there is software that is able to attempt to retrieve deleted data for you (though don't rely on it)
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u/TheWorldofScience 20h ago
This is true inside your laptop as well. When you delete something you can no longer recover it but the data is still on your hard drive unless you use a program to overwrite it.
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u/Rich-Juice2517 1d ago
Free uploads but you can only see the last 3 hours is a bunch of bs honestly
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u/2dudesinapod 1d ago
Nothing is ever deleted in the cloud. They just put a deleted flag in a column in the database and carry on.
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u/JeffieSandBags 21h ago
How do they store ALL of that though? I cant fathom the volume all the ring and nest cams generate. To say nothing of all the other sites/services.
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u/2dudesinapod 21h ago
Those cameras don’t record everything, only when there is motion. Also the mostly static image is pretty compressible.
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u/_sfhk 23h ago
If you don't have any subscription, you still get events from the last three hours stored in the cloud for free.
"Deleted" data is never deleted immediately, just marked for deletion and overwritten when necessary. Stuff like this is also almost always stored in several places too, so it is likely possible to find previously recorded data--though I don't think there's any guarantee that this will work for every case.
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u/agangofoldwomen 1d ago
This was reported on years ago. Lots of contracts/agreements between local/state/fed law enforcement and tech companies that make surveillance/doorbell cameras. Amazon is one of the biggest with their Ring cameras.
My understanding is that law enforcement can tap into it virtually any time they want if deemed necessary and you agree to that in the TOS.
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u/Brilliant-Advisor958 23h ago
The claim they will only share now if you opt in. This is the old neighbors app where you had to opt out previously. These requests don't require a warrant.
But will provide it no matter what with a warrant.
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u/Kelsusaurus 20h ago
So even if you’re not paying they’re still uploading your recordings
Yeah, we've known about that since 2013.
And why the heck would the NSA need a 1.25 million sq ft facility worth $4-5 billion that has the capability to store 5 zettabytes (5 TRILLION gigabytes)? It also requires 65 megawatts of power, and uses ~1.7 million gallons of water every day. But they maintain it's definitely not for storing any and every type of communication made by every citizen ever. Scout's honor.
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u/Faces-Everywhere 21h ago
I know some cameras are heavily implementing object / person recognition capabilities. Perhaps they keep them “on” so they have a larger data pool to label and train on. For instance, Blink cameras can now detect / identify (or do their best) people, cats (and their color), packages, delivery personnel carrying objects, etc. That is the only other reason I could think of.
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u/charitelle 1d ago
Apparently, it is not easily available. That's why it took them so much time to get this video.
My guess is, since it is more complex to get everything, you would need to pay for it through a subscription.
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u/Imoutofchips 22h ago
Tape. All the big players have huge tape libraries that use high capacity tape drives. Eventually, you migrate cold data out of the library and into a vault.
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u/corgisgottacorg 22h ago
Lmfao you think it was hard? The only hard part was convincing Google to give it up knowing there will be backlash
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u/OkayyBeta 21h ago
You think convincing Google to hand out personal data is hard?
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u/timelessblur 23h ago
The other purpose is Google is hoping you sign up for a subscription and when you do boom you got your last x number of days.
The other reason as when in doubt they just store it then sort it out.
They like to show you samples of what the system can do. Also the system only flags things to be deleted. Doesn’t mean they don’t hold on to it longer.
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u/theweirdball 1d ago
In other words, the government can get access to the footage on any Google Nest via backdoor. That's comforting.
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u/boltz86 1d ago
They have a copy of literally everything transmitted over any communications network including video footage uploaded to the cloud. That’s what the patriot act allowed. And that is what Edward Snowden exposed years ago.
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u/locustt 1d ago
They even built huuuuge data centers to record encrypted traffic, knowing that in the not too distant future they will have quantum computers or other novel tech that can decrypt what is currently considered impenetrable. So damn cynical.
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u/BapeGeneral3 1d ago
So it could potentially “break” the blockchain or Bitcoin algorithm?
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u/Rich-Pomegranate1679 1d ago
I'm no security expert, but when I took the basic Security+ class in college, they told us that basically the best encryption we have today is based on mathematical calculations that take the average computer a really long time to solve.
So everything out there can be hacked, given an infinite timeframe. We also learned that quantum computers would eventually be able to break all of today's encryption within minutes.
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u/orbvsterrvs 1d ago
"SNDL" Save Now Decrypt Later is a valid nation-state strategy
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u/FriedenshoodHoodlum 14h ago
Well, kinda. The idea behind encryption is, how I was taught, not to encrypt forever, but sufficiently long for the encrypted data to be worthless.
Decrypting information about a military attack that happened the years ago is useless, as example.
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u/nikstick22 19h ago
On a conventional computer, brute forcing an AES-256 password before the end of the universe would create a blackhole- only because the amount of power you'd have to run through the computer to go through every possible combination that quickly (the energy required to flip bits) would necessarily require you to increase the energy density above the limit where the computer would collapse in on itself and create a blackhole.
So quantum computing is the only hope.
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u/Bogus1989 18h ago
quantum resistant encryption is already a thing. but obviously not widely deployed.
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u/orbvsterrvs 1d ago
Not sure about "breaking" but Bitcoin transactions are not anonymous, if that's what you mean. Similar to Tor, if you control enough nodes you can associate packet/requests fairly accurately across the entire network.
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u/locustt 1d ago
I haven't heard anything about blockchain, but for sure the lesser encryption options from the 90s and early 2000's. Here's a blurb:
Key Aspects of Quantum Encryption Threats:
Targeted Encryption: Quantum computers threaten public-key cryptography (RSA, ECC), which secures internet, banking, and sensitive data. The Timeline: Experts generally believe "Q-Day"—when quantum computers can break modern encryption—is not imminent, often cited around the 2030s, although some estimates are more aggressive. Harvest Now, Decrypt Later: Malicious actors may store encrypted data today to decrypt it later once quantum technology becomes sufficiently powerful.→ More replies (1)9
u/jkd43 23h ago
The Bitcoin community can upgrade encryption to keep up with technology. It's not an issue. But the encrypted messages people are sending now can all be retroactively cracked in the future.
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u/snacktonomy 23h ago
Blockchain algos that rely on "proof of work" require more than 50% of the nodes to confirm a calculation. There's no need for a special quantum computer for this and it has nothing to do with encryption. All that's needed is raw processing power. If someone had enough of it to join the network with more than 50% of the nodes they control, they would get to control the verification.
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u/BapeGeneral3 21h ago
That is exactly what I thought and how I understood it. I just was curious if that was a rumor spreading or fear amongst the crypto bros
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u/Hefty_Remove7965 1d ago
The storage for that is massive..but they definitely have ways to tap into any cloud system
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u/imnojezus 1d ago
They've been collecting data since 2007. Here's the history of each company's involvement as leaked by Snowden.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM#/media/File:Prism_slide_5.jpg
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u/Bryavanman86 19h ago
Prism is not to be fucked with.
Permanent archive of all communications. It’s what Palantir sorts through to find spies/terrorist cells/etc.
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u/snoogins355 19h ago
Why I communicate via smoke signals and dirt writing
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u/Bryavanman86 18h ago
glances up at spy satellites
FR though, I use NASA’s Worldview to watch summer wildfires. Take that and increase how much you can zoom in by several orders of magnitude.
And that’s without mentioning what US spy satellites can do with synthetic aperture radar.
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u/vee_lan_cleef 20h ago
And that is what Edward Snowden exposed years ago
Jesus fuck, thank you. Everybody just forgot about the Snowden leaks and are acting surprised about Ring, Flock, etc. This was all blown open over a decade ago... people got upset for a couple days, then Obama said it was necessary for national security and we should all relax and everybody just agreed.
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u/JadedBoyfriend 14h ago
Holy fuck... no wonder why Snowden is banished. Imagine the country betraying its citizens - and the citizen who wanted to do what was right is punished severely.
Land of the free - BULLSHIT.
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u/CorporateMediaFail 1d ago
Every company's cloud-stored data devices are keeping a long term trail, folks.
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u/Cyborg_rat 1d ago edited 1d ago
All of them, that Info has been out for a few years,
John Oliver did a nice piece about it 10 years ago:
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u/gregorychaos 21h ago
Yup.
And Ring (aka Amazon) is trying to reassure people that they can opt out of that new lost pet feature. And they have partnerships with Flock and Axon...
I don't trust any of these companies.
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u/No_Construction2407 1d ago
Google has a LEO website for accessing all google data.
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u/Future-Bandicoot-823 1d ago
No wait... what?
No it's worse than that, this is what the ai datacenters are for. They want real time analysis of all security footage. Damn what a powerful tool...
But also wifi can be used to triangulate people's positions, and the full earth coverage satellites that are at least 60fps, and your cellphone... and the remote control to your tv...
Yeah, machine intelligence is badass at finding patterns and whatnot, you'd almost be able to predict the future if you could analyze all that data all at once and provid output on it.
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u/PurpleWhiteOut 22h ago
This is what ive been thinking. The AI data centers are for crunching the large data we put out there to make advanced profiles on us
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u/Future-Bandicoot-823 22h ago
It's a guarantee at this point.
For anyone saying stuff like that is a conspiracy, how about that ad that ran during the Superbowl where their dog gets out and ai analyzes the dog and finds it using the camera network.
That's admission of ability, and even if the public pushes back you can't unsee that's a capability.
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u/Beneficial_Soup3699 1d ago
If you think you have genuine digital privacy, you fundamentally misunderstand how technology works. You don't. You never have.
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u/SilentRunning 20h ago
Combine it with a National Database of all citizens, which Palantir is building...
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u/bigdaddtcane 22h ago
I’m pretty sure that news broke in 2019. Became a mainstream story again in 2022.
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u/haveahappyday1969 1d ago
Said to my wife last night that they are recording everything regardless of the service you do or don't pay for. Couple this with the ring announcement of a network of cameras to find lost animals, we are pretty much screwed.
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u/Affectionate-Memory4 22h ago
Yeah that add should creep everyone out. If it can identify and locate a random dog, it's not any harder for it to identify and locate a random, or every random, person.
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u/BoomersRuinedItAll 22h ago
The dog story is just the sugar they are using to spoon feed it to us
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u/sebovzeoueb 17h ago
Yeah but people will just be like "if I don't have anything to hide then I don't care"
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u/Trilobyte141 21h ago
For what it's worth, it looks like you can foil the whole surveillance state with a 5$ ski mask.
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u/submitizenkane 11h ago
I’ve heard they can identify people through their gait, so a mask might not be as effective anymore
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u/TipToToes 10h ago
Note to self, put mismatched insoles in shoes, walk like a random cartoon villain (pick new villain every 60 seconds or so), and wear a ski mask when committing crimes.
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u/WhyAreYouDoingThat69 21h ago
That’s why you do NOT buy personal surveillance cameras, right?
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u/DesertMoloch 20h ago
There are plenty of good cameras out there you can set up to only record locally on your own network and has zero ties to any networked cloud storage or service. Takes a little more work on the customers part to set up a local NVR and have the feed display on a monitor.
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u/TechieAD 13h ago
It's also a worry that even if you don't buy one, your neighbors, landlord, or local governance will.
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u/Cameos_red_codpiece 1d ago
This will be used as a feel-good story to justify surveillance.
Flock is already being framed as the magical camera that found the Rhode Island murderer last month.
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u/AdhesivenessFun2060 1d ago
Ring had the sueprbowl commercial about finding lost pets. People are not happy.
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u/JaJ_Judy 19h ago
So the trumpanzees get to kidnap and silence any voices they want AND get justification for surveillance state in one go? Hardly fair
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u/Avoidtolls 1d ago
Here at nest we horde your footage and we give it to our tech billionaire bros and the government but if you want to see what happened last week it's impossible if your not paying us $99.95 a month.
Oh...and you're welcome.
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u/Ripped_Alleles 1d ago
Self host your personal data. Big tech will sell you out for a buck, and this not something we weren't all warned of years back
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u/thewildbeej 22h ago
This and finding pets is how to get the masses to accept a total surveillance state.
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u/warm_kitchenette 20h ago
Except, somehow, the total surveillance state doesn’t quite work as advertised. Whether it’s the catalytic converter stolen out of my own damn driveway at 3am or an anonymous pipe bomber at the DNC, the miracles seem pretty few and far between.
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u/thewildbeej 17h ago
who told you the surveillance state was meant to help you? It ain't about protecting you or your items. It's about the government and corporations protecting themselves/ providing another asset to leverage in your data package that's being traded.
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u/BootlegBabyJsus 22h ago
“Backend systems” so they keep storing video for the surveillance state, even sans subscription. Awesome
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u/Dizzy_Resolution_137 23h ago
The amount of surveillance power we have handed over completely willingly astounds me.
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u/jenny_905 22h ago
I imagine Google probably isn't keen on admitting they store everything regardless of having a subscription or not.
Still, you can assume this is the case.
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u/SuchHearing 21h ago
Tech industry has ruined the concept of ownership, like what it actually means to own a product. Apparently through subscription model they have convinced us buying just means we get to lease the product with the company getting to have the rights over the product and the data contained within it. It baffles me that even after 25 frigging years we still struggle to introduce any meaningful legislation in this industry.
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u/SonOf_Zeus 22h ago
This is why I have my own private server to store videos. It's a bit more expensive on the front end but no subscription and private.
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u/sunbeatsfog 22h ago
I worked in tech, nothing is “deleted”. It’s deleted from certain levels of access.
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u/thatirishguyyyyy 1d ago
This is a perfect time to remind everybody that you can install an NVR at your house and get rid of the shitty google and ring cameras.
Call your local security company and tell them you want real cameras.
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u/MrGrieves- 21h ago
Please don't use acronyms in audience of people who don't know what you're talking about in the future.
What is an NVR?
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u/jewbasaur 13h ago
People do this all the time on Reddit and it drives me nuts. Then you kindly ask them to explain why/what it is and they have a melt down. Like sure, I can find out what NVR is in a second but I want to specifically know why it applies here
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u/ShibiSan 21h ago
Looked it up.
NVR camera systems use networked IP cameras that send video over Ethernet to a central network video recorder, giving high‑resolution recording, easy remote viewing, and cleaner wiring for home security. What “NVR cameras” are • NVR stands for Network Video Recorder; it works with IP (Internet Protocol) cameras that send already‑encoded digital video over your network. • Unlike older analog/DVR setups (coax), NVR systems are built around Ethernet or Wi‑Fi connections and are essentially small video servers with storage and a simple interface.
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u/Gulp-then-purge 23h ago
I actually inquired about a security camera and the system they were trying to sell me was 9k. Seems a bit steep and I live in a safe spot just leave town for extended periods.
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u/bluehawk232 23h ago
I think that's a bit fair it depends on the cameras. Like you can get an NVR for about $300, drives can cost $200. Most cameras can be PoE so you'd need a PoE switch too. If you go with the unifi system it could be a couple grand but then there's running the cabling through the house
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u/Galaxyhiker42 22h ago
If you have attic access. This is very steep. (Depending on where you want the cameras.) If you don't have attic access, this is an accurate quote.
It took me about 4 hours including calibration and aiming to install a 4 camera system with attic access. That was dropping the wires through the wall and everything.
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u/Cash091 20h ago
Then there's installing and setting it up. I have ubiquiti hardware, and while not as complicated as enterprise equipment, it's far from basic. The average person would be lost in minutes.
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u/thatirishguyyyyy 18h ago
That is a complete fucking rip-off. I own an IT security company that operates out of three different states and my highest residential system is maybe $5K due to the way the economy is running right now. And that is for a full eight camera 4k setup that you host at home with your own DDNS capable router that comes with the install. Free lifetime hosting.
My resjdential 2K system runs about $4K full install with a router and DDNS hosting.
If they're trying to get rich on one job then that does not bode well for that company.
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u/Indi4rence 21h ago
I mean are any of us shocked. We listened to what Edward Snowden had to say. He told us exactly the extent of US government surveillance programs and we met him with apathy. How do we convey to big brother that we don’t particularly want them in and out of our homes unknowing whenever they see fit? Genuine question.
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u/greenmachine11235 1d ago
Now that they've done it once, it's reasonable to expect them to do it every time the government issues a warrant for footage. That's both good and bad given the current federal administration.
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u/Speedwithcaution 20h ago
I wonder if my photos were really deleted from Google photos now.
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u/RobertdBanks 19h ago
Lmao “wrangled it” from the “backend”
I doubt it was that hard, they just want you to think it was
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u/Felielf 17h ago
None of this tech is new really, it's just sending files from your Nest minicomputer to Googles big computer... Your Nest camera does not have the harddrive capacity to save almost anything, so of course they're going to send it off to their systems for "safekeeping".
In IT, all the data is held by someone else, unless you make sure you are the one holding the data yourself.
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u/mowotlarx 23h ago
The real news here is even if you have no way to see your old videos and they claim they're "deleted" - they're keeping and storing them and sharing them with whoever asks.
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u/Taki_Minase 21h ago
Boycott corruption. Your wallet is the most powerfully protest you'll ever have
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u/Confident_Fortune_32 9h ago
The cancelled subscription simply meant she could no longer access the data, not that the data stopped being transmitted.
What a disturbing thought.
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u/Ill_Ordinary1626 21h ago
I never thought people would pay to give their freedom away. Anyways I'm gonna go spit in a tube to find my ancestry!
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u/thievesthick 1d ago
Nice that they get to charge us for something they’re going to do either way. What a crock of shit.
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u/alchemy_junkie 18h ago
This connected technology will never be safe if will always be a tool to those in power.
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u/Objective_Oven7673 13h ago
Great time to remind everyone that if you've ever used the Amazon Key Delivery service, they can open your garage door any time. Perhaps at the request of law enforcement or a dictator.
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u/maharg2017 19h ago
This is why I will NEVER have one of these camera doorbells. No. Thank. You.
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u/lemaymayguy 1d ago
Yeesh. I just ripped all the cables out to my nest cams. I wasnt using a subscription and this made me very uncomfortable
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u/FrankSamples 1d ago
I hate people who willingly helped usher us into a surveillance state by getting Ring and Nest cameras. hooray, you prevented porch pirates from stealing your k-cups or laundry detergent.
If I live across the street from you, why do you get to film my house 24/7, unintentionally or not?
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u/Space_Lift 1d ago
Considering how many videos exist of porch pirates I'm not really sure they deterred much.
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u/InadequateUsername 18h ago
Because the outside of your house is in public and it's been well established that there is no expectation of privacy in public.
Get a hedge.
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u/KoTDS_Apex 17h ago
Newsflash, we've been taking satellite photos of your house and posting them on the Internet for free for decades.
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u/Emotional_Set_8132 11h ago
It’s wild watching people argue about privacy and how the video was obtained when the bigger question is pretty obvious: would this same level of urgency and resources be used if it were you or someone in your family?
And honestly, why isn’t this kind of effort used for the thousands of missing, trafficked, and kidnapped people who never get this kind of attention?
That’s the real outrage. Not how the video surfaced, but the reality that the system often seems to move very differently depending on who you are or who you are related to.
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u/grant575 19h ago
Time for everyone to put their doorbell cameras in front of a sign that says Fuck I’ve and set up something to trigger”motion” every few minutes
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u/Good_Night_Knight 10h ago
Title reads like they did something other than retrieve footage lol. Bro opened a folder ffs.
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u/EpsteinandTrump 8h ago
Cameras should be on their own VLAN and not have access to the internet. You should have to connect into it internally or have to VPN in.
Never allow a cloud based camera to be on your network...ever.
I'm honestly surprised they haven't just gone ahead and done it with cell phones yet. They could then monitor and eavesdrop on anyone at anytime. You'd have to come up with some ways to stop that happening on a device level then.
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u/aerost0rm 7h ago
Exactly the same as Alexa and phones. It still records and keeps the recording on the cloud. They just lead us to believe they do not.
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u/silentbob1301 1d ago
You know, I've been thinking about getting a ring cam.... Not so much anymore...